Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

Thu Aug 14 04:35:08 UTC 2014

2. What figure (See the individual chapters)?  I need more explanation about this one. (Which of the hand shapes in the Group, there are more than 20 under Group 1. That's what I mean by "figure". A Group contains many "figures". Those individual figures are already ordered in the SignPuddle, I am not changing the order of their introduction, I am starting by Group, then Figure, then Orientation, then Rotation.) I was not going to repeat a breakdown by Figure in the introduction, that would take up as much space as the entire SignPuddle, I was trying to save that for each chapter, which goes solely by GROUP for now.  Look at the top of Chapter 1 and you will see all of the Figures in Group 1. The index finger (the first one) then goes through all of the Orientations, etc. in the first column. I used representative samples, not exhaustive. 

This was an Introduction for ONE conference, not exhaustive for all things. I plan to follow the sequence as presented in the SignPuddle for input, as closely as possible, when one is going through any of the groups beyond the hand shapes. 

I am sorry that I was not more explicit, one has to start somewhere. 

Charles Butler
chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com
240-764-5748
Clear writing moves business forward.

________________________________
 From: Jonathan Duncan <duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA>
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU 
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

Hi Charles,
    I watched your talk again today.  I realized that what I call
    "Sign Sequence" you call "Sign Spelling".  I guess it is
    "SignSpelling Sequence".  So I didn't understand that the first
    time.  So now after this more attentive listening to your talk, I
    see that you definitely are using SignSpelling Sequence for all your
    entries and that you are doing them manually the same way Val
    suggested in the SignSpelling Guidelines.   
    Am I correct in my understanding that which symbols come first
    in the sorted list is different from the way SignPuddle is sorting?  

Your sorting would be sorted by the
1. First by symbol in the sign sequence's basegroup of the first
    hand in the SignSpelling Sequence
2. What figure (See the individual chapters)? I need more explanation about this one. (Which of the hand shapes in the Group, there are more than 20 under Group 1. That's what I mean by "figure". A Group contains many "figures". Those individual figures are already ordered in the SignPuddle, I am not changing the order of their introduction, I am starting by Group, then Figure, then Orientation, then Rotation.) 

 3. The for each basegroup sort by fill

4. In each fill sorting, sort by rotation ( but not distinguishing between right and left hands.  
I see you number both from 1 to 8 in instead of numbering them all
      from 1 to 16)

5. Location symbol. comes after hand symbol when comparing.
From first to last 
No Body - hand to hand, head, body 

5.1 Location sorting on hand contact order doesn't seem to be defined yet

5.2 Head location sorting

5.3 Body body 
Indicate the location of the body, placing the graphic in the left
    lane, the middle lane, or 
right lane. - Need this explained I'm not understanding.
Needs to have numbering for which comes first for body location

6 - What is contact? No order, any can come first.

7.7 - Finger bends (ie no order)?No order, any can come first.

8 - Movement? Vertical, then Horizontal, then Arc - up / down, up
      / abaxo + rotation, then up / down bow 
after / below + arc rotation, face bow, face bow + rotation

Need to define which come first within the vertical, and which come first within the horizontal, etc.  Or just current default currently in ISWA2010
Need to define movement symbols in other planes, etc.

9 Timing.  Which comes first?

10 Faces and posture.
Not sure about this one, would like more explanation.

Also you need to output a dictionary that has, 

hand 
spelling 
sign 
Portuguese 
ASL 
english 
Quote

Do you currently have any way of keeping all this information in
      Sign Puddle?
SignWriter Studio can do 
spelling
sign-LIBRAS
Portuguese
English
Source

I was hoping to add a second SignLanguage to do a dictionary with
      two sign languages but I haven't programmed that yet.

I am still working on finalizing the output for the dictionary. 
      So I am looking for your input whether you use it or not.

Please fill me in where I am lacking and correct me where I am
      wrong.

Regards,

Jonathan

On 8/12/2014 4:47 PM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:

Hi Charles,
    I enjoyed your symposium “Ordering Signs in Dictionaries” http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.htmlgro
 I was wondering if Steve and Val had been able to find you a solution.  Val mentioned that she thought that Steve would have an easy way for you to do your sorting.

I would like to implement a sorting algorithm for SignWriter
      Studio as I haven't implemented any yet and I am starting to
      produce a Honduran Sign Language dictionary.  

I understood how you are doing the ordering comparing hand shapes,
      comparing rotations, comparing facings, comparing facial areas,
      etc.  I like it very much.

A couple things I wanted to ask.

For your algorithm to work properly does the sign sequence of a
      sign need to be filled out?  I am getting the impression that your
      sorting could sort dictionaries without the sign sequence, is this
      assumption correct?  Or would it sort signs according to the
      symbols in sign sequence?  It doesn't seem to take into account
      the order of the symbols in the sign sequence, is this correct?

Also do you have another document comparing the other symbols like
      movement symbols, etc?  If so could you send it to me? 

Thanks

-- 

email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca
         joyoduncan at gmail.com
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
Tel USA: (347)875-8442 
Skype: yojoduncan

SignWriter Studio

-- 

email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca
         joyoduncan at gmail.com
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171
Tel USA: (347)875-8442 
Skype: yojoduncan

SignWriter Studio
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