Question about torso tilts

Mon Jun 23 14:04:09 UTC 2014

Hello,

If I understand well, the torso tilt and the body tilts are the same, only the amplitude is different?  In both case the hip line is static?

If a forward movement was represented in an animation by a zoom out, then my 2 first drawings are correct and the 3rd should not be used ?

  Thanks  André Lemyre

Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 20:31:08 -0700
From: signwriting at MAC.COM
Subject: Re: Question about torso tilts
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU

SignWriting ListJune 22, 2014
Hello everyone … See my answer below...
On Jun 22, 2014, at 7:12 PM, André L <andre-andre at HOTMAIL.CA> wrote:I would like to know if the 2 following symbols have the same meaning or if the first one involves a rotation of the shoulders.

Thanks
André Lemyre
———
Hello André -Thank you for this question and for your patience too…I believe you asked this question a long time ago and it slipped my mind - very sorry.
I would say at this point, after writing 40 years, that the two symbols have the same meaning to most writers. So yes, the two symbols have the same meaning now.
But…back in the time when we were more concerned about great detail…there was a difference in meaning…but very subtle...
First, as you know, if the Tilting Symbols are placed near the Shoulder Line, then the Tilt comes from the Shoulders only, well, really from the upper rib cage, or from the waist, so it is a very small and subtle tilt from high up on the torso… 
Second, larger tilts (for the entire upper body, that involves the entire spine, coming from the hip joint), place the Tilt Symbols above the Head Circle…see attached diagrams below from the Lessons in SignWriting Textbook…
So in the example you show in your question, we know that these are very small tilts just from the shoulders - when the two symbols are placed, one at each shoulder, they are showing a small equal tilting…
In the past, one symbol implied that the small tilt is only on one side of the upper body - one shoulder tilts the upper body forward a little - but the placement is so small that it is hardly a real twist - in fact it is not really a twist at all, but a feeling of leaning forward in a lopsided manner on one side of the body -
But then over the years, this was so small, that another thing started to happen in some documents - if the writer wanted both shoulders to tilt, but didn’t have room in the sign to write both symbols, they would write one and not care - to them that meant a small tilt anyway and that detail was not taken into account -
So now my answer has only confused you probably - you can see we have had many years of writing now and styles of writing happen over time - 
So my REAL answer is that whether you write one or two, it means generally that there is a small tilt from the shoulders, and it is not a twist…
Twisting is written with a Twisting Arrow, or, it can be written simply by showing the shoulders at a diagonal and the hips straight forward -
Below I attach two pages from the Lessons in SignWriting Textbook

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140623/a0a5d904/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: torso-body-question1.png
Type: image/png
Size: 13824 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140623/a0a5d904/attachment.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: torso-body-question2.png
Type: image/png
Size: 13776 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140623/a0a5d904/attachment-0001.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: torso-body-question3.png
Type: image/png
Size: 12083 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140623/a0a5d904/attachment-0002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Torso-question.png
Type: image/png
Size: 362 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140623/a0a5d904/attachment-0003.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Torso1.png
Type: image/png
Size: 9837 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140623/a0a5d904/attachment-0004.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Torso2.png
Type: image/png
Size: 13120 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20140623/a0a5d904/attachment-0005.png>