[Sw-l] [SPAM] Re: Collaborative Writing, Group Writing

Tue Apr 26 19:12:11 UTC 2022

I’m pretty sure programming is a high paid profession for sweeping bits
around.   Sweeping humans around seems more interesting at this point in my
life.

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 1:54 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Imagine writing all the procedures (conditions and steps) and recipes for
> cooking and delivering meals to food courts at malls—that’s programming.
> For just one example, having MREs is like caching in programming.
>
> I’ve heard tell that women invented the “stored program concept” (think
> recipe box), not John Von Neumann.  Also Ada Lovelace was the first
> programmer.
>
> So programming is just one “Movement notation,” for signing bit movement
> to the computer.
>
> Some people say that AI is pretty much lists and lists of conditions.
> Some programmers want to get rid of conditions for performance reasons.
> Maybe some of both is best?  Hardware has gates/transistors.
>
> People used to write computer programs by hand as well, and had to flip
> switches to put them into the computer.
>
> Lots of movement!
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 1:22 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don’t think that dancing is too different than programming, or
>> cooking/baking.  In musical terms, programming is like having different
>> endings for a verse, based on some condition, like how many times the verse
>> has been played.
>>
>> The thing with programming is there are hierarchies of condition branches
>> in programs, and some piece of the program tells the computer to restart at
>> a fork in the hierarchy (could be anywhere).
>>
>> So an example is with baking, when the oven is preheated to 350 degrees F
>> and the mix is in the baking pan, open the oven and put the pan in the oven
>> (without spilling the mix), then close the oven.   When oven timer goes
>> off, open oven, check to see if mix is cooked, then remove pan from oven to
>> cool, then close the oven.
>>
>> That was an oversimplification of both baking and programming.   You have
>> to handle a whole multi-threaded meal in reality.
>>
>> Hope this helps you understand programming a bit better.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 12:16 PM Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> SignWriting List
>>> April 26, 2022
>>>
>>> Hello SignWriting List, and John Carlson,
>>>
>>> It is very interesting for me to read your messages. And I will follow
>>> your dreams…
>>>
>>> You know about programming concepts I have never heard of, and because
>>> I'm not a programmer, I have never thought of such things. So thank you for
>>> sharing your ideas and I hope that others who are programmers can
>>> collaborate with you.
>>>
>>> The old profession of “movement notation”, which goes back 100s of
>>> years, and there are many systems (I compiled a little booklet with
>>> examples of other dance notation systems if someone is interested), is a
>>> profession that has changed now because of computers.
>>>
>>> Back when I was working with Sutton Movement Writing in Denmark in the
>>> early 1970s, everything was written by hand, or with wax transfer sheets
>>> that I developed that presses wax symbols on a paper, because personal
>>> computers weren't developed yet … see attached
>>>
>>> So I actually never thought of the idea of a typewriter for Movement
>>> Writing until the mid-1980s. So I am a writer, not a programmer…. but I can
>>> certainly share your dreams for a future with cool software as you suggest,
>>> John ;-)
>>>
>>> So what is the profession of a “movement notator”? Movement notators are
>>> not choregraphers.
>>>
>>> The word choreographer refers to someone who creates new dances for
>>> other people to dance, but they are not the "movement notators" who write
>>> down the choreography. Movement notators write “sheet dance” or “dance
>>> scores”, so people putting on a production together, have a document to
>>> refer to… I used to hand the written dance scores to the dancers who had to
>>> perform the choreography on stage, and they were learning the dances from
>>> the score behind the scenes, before they went on… this happened because the
>>> Boston ballet dancers that were performing were late and learned the dances
>>> from the score… it was a Bournonville production I produced in the 1970s in
>>> Boston… and the guest dancers were running from stage to stage - I really
>>> don’t know what we would  have done if we hadn’t had the written
>>> DanceWriting -
>>>
>>> So I am not promoting anyone moving in any way - I am not creating
>>> dances - I am just writing dance scores… when I write DanceWriting - and it
>>> has been years! But I found a whole bunch of beautiful handwritten
>>> documents by my DW students from the 1970s the other day, and some were
>>> Scottish Folk Dance which has some similarities to the Virginia Reel -
>>>
>>> ...and I see that Sutthikhun has already written some, so let me look at
>>> the next messages …
>>>
>>> More soon..
>>>
>>> Val ;-)
>>>
>>> -----------
>>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2022, at 1:04 PM, John Carlson <yottzumm at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>> I came up with this from several directions.  In 1991, I came up with
>>> the idea of writing a movement programming language, but it was a solitary
>>> activity.  In 1997, I heard about “pair programming.”  Since 1985-1986, I
>>> had been interested in multiuser environments, like text chat, and later
>>> making multiuser environments for planning systems, visual programming,
>>> solitaire games, and mesh editing.
>>>
>>> In 2019, I became interested in SignWriting, etc. and wrote a very
>>> simplistic translator from English to SignWriting.  I also became familiar
>>> with Natural Semantic Metalanguage.
>>>
>>> For a while I had been exploring the idea of generators in computer
>>> science and also emitters.   I then arrived at collectors, the opposite of
>>> emitters.
>>>
>>> Back in the late 80’s a friend recommended “Godel Escher Bach” by
>>> Hofstadter.
>>>
>>> I became fascinated with differential set theory, continuous hierarchy
>>> and smooth collections,  cumulating in waves of concepts and fields of
>>> concepts.
>>>
>>> A friend Doug Sanden said he had explored crowds as emitters/collectors.
>>>
>>> I remembered fluid concepts from another Hofstadter book.
>>>
>>> Before those two, and back into the 70s with the book “beyond
>>> competition” I became interested in collaborative games, like puzzles and
>>> “house.”
>>>
>>> So plugging this all together, I came up with a “dance of concepts.”
>>>  Which seems like what Valerie has been pushing for a long time.  Dance is
>>> collaborative.  I remember doing the Virginia Reel in physical education in
>>> school.  I don’t know if I could attempt to do the reel in DanceWriting,
>>> but it would be fun to try to convert video to DanceWriting.
>>>
>>> I wrote the start of a collaborative environment for teaching people and
>>> computers the rules to card games.
>>>
>>> I realize that indeed this may only be a “field of dreams”, but I
>>> imagine one could do holodeck programming with holoconcepts.
>>>
>>> I will look for a Virginia Reel or other square dancing videos.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 2:24 PM Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> SignWriting List
>>> April 23, 2022
>>>
>>> Thank you, John, for this question about “Collaborative Writing”… I bet
>>> we can write it. Tell us more about what you mean… what is a “collaborative
>>> activity” to you?
>>>
>>> Do you have any videos we could write together?
>>>
>>> Val ;-)
>>>
>>> -------
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Apr 23, 2022, at 5:31 AM, John Carlson <yottzumm at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I’m wondering how SignWriting, DanceWriting or MovementWriting might
>>> be done in collaboration, or used to describe collaborative activities.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > John
>>> > ________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>
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>>>
>>

________________________________________________

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