[Sw-l] [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing

Thu Feb 17 22:27:46 UTC 2022

a further example:

[image: image.png]

Is it important that the wrist movement be performed in different places?
Or is it important to show that there is a double movement? My feeling is
that the sign search can be well extended by duplicant and that is not
possible with this notation.

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:23 PM Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I would like to go deeper into signwriting suggestions, from the
> perspective of sign search. I think this is also interesting for you if you
> want signs to be found.
>
> [image: image.png]
> It is important that a symbol with wrist movement is taken, because wrist
> movement is to be found via the search. I.e. you should then place the long
> arrow so that it covers the stroke of the wrist movement symbol.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> I am always happy when there are good solutions to transcribe with fewer
> symbols.
>
> For our sign search, we defined the following for the common arrow: "both
> hands are performed together".
>
> And for this sign "Sightseen" that is not the case. For this we use   "  [image:
> be97e70c-f7c2-4155-963f-92767f4d5335.png]  " This means "parallel" ->
> same movement and same handshape.
>
> If the sign search is to be successful, then you have to be consistent.
> And this is not the case with the first example
> [image: image.png]
>  , because for the wrist movement 2 arrows are used and for the straight
> movement to the right the general arrow. There the second notation
> [image: image.png]
> is consistent.
>
>
>
>
> [image: image.png]
> This sign writing is not right for me, because I see a duplicate movement
> and that is not seen on the image.
>
> Best regards
> Uta
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 10:08 PM Ms. AnnaGrace <msannagrace20 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Adam,
>>
>> Excellent points! Thank you.
>>
>> ~ AnnaGrace
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 2:53 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wouldn’t be able to make a detailed explanation today, so I will give
>>> a short one and then expand on it tomorrow.
>>>
>>> At first glance, it would seem that these two are the same. However,
>>> there is a difference in their meaning.
>>>
>>> The separated arrows means that the hands are far enough apart that they
>>> don’t overlap in their respective paths.
>>>
>>> With the general movement arrow, it means that the hands move together
>>> very closely, almost to the point that they are touching as they move along
>>> the same path.
>>>
>>> Now, having said that, I know that there are some writers who have
>>> chosen to use the general movement arrows to also mean that both hands move
>>> as a unit regardless of how far apart they are. My understanding is that
>>> this is even becoming standard in Brazil. To be honest, that is ok as long
>>> as everyone see it the same way and that it doesn’t result in confusion of
>>> other signs.
>>>
>>> I would personally write the first spelling because it is more common
>>> for the hands to be farther apart than closer. This is actually how many
>>> writers in the US have chosen to write because there are cases when signs
>>> are confused if the general arrow is used regardless of how far the hands
>>> are apart.
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> On Feb 17, 2022, at 11:39 AM, Ms. AnnaGrace <msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi André,
>>>
>>> Both spellings mean "MOVE" in ASL to me. They mean the same thing.
>>>
>>> As for choosing which spelling to use, I would use the second one,
>>> because it is more "economical".
>>> However, as for the usage of (B), it depends on how much the writer
>>> knows SignWriting.
>>> I would expect the more knowledgeable and fluent signwriters would come
>>> up with that arrowhead in (B);
>>> I can imagine the beginner signwriters would more likely use (A).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> AnnaGrace
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 2:07 PM André Thibeault <atg at videotron.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Val, Adam and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Adam and Val: Thank you for your answer.
>>>>
>>>> Adam signwrote: <A985437A-8542-4AEF-80F7-4F5F7B2FA760.png>
>>>>                                      A) MOVE (ASL)
>>>>
>>>> I signwrite: <D9A076AA-73F1-476A-B4CA-E189C0220E90.png>
>>>>                       B) MOVE (ASL)
>>>>
>>>> Is B) MOVE the correct spelling?  If so, A) MOVE is more commonly used.
>>>> B) MOVE is more rarely used. I like an ASL sign for B) MOVE because B) MOVE
>>>> is more economical than A) MOVE.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> André
>>>>
>>>> De : Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Répondre à : "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <
>>>> SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>>>> Date : Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:55:01 -0800
>>>> À : <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>>>> Objet : Re: [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing
>>>>
>>>> That’s part of the reason I asked. ;-) I have several people off the
>>>> list that I have been asking as well. Even some who aren’t familiar or
>>>> skilled with SignWriting, just to see an alternative view in case there
>>>> might be a more simple option.
>>>>
>>>> So I have settled down with this as the main option:
>>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png>
>>>>
>>>> It actually takes the exact spelling of 22 on both hands. It seems that
>>>> most people that I have talked with don’t see the paths overlapping that
>>>> often. They can, but not usually.
>>>>
>>>> If the sign is made larger and/or with more repeated wrist flex, it
>>>> seems to be possible that there is an overlapping path. I had tired to
>>>> write it like this:
>>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.40.39 AM.png>
>>>>
>>>> But it seems that the above spelling isn’t very readable to many people
>>>> of various SignWriting skill levels. So I tried this option below, and it
>>>> seems it is more readily understandable.
>>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.37.20 AM.png>
>>>>
>>>> So, if I were to follow the same principle and write the straight
>>>> general movement rather than the curved, I found this is actually more
>>>> readable than the combined arrows.
>>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.43.55 AM.png>
>>>>
>>>> But now for the curve ball! I have asked several people (off the list)
>>>> what movement they see with that sign. The ones that don’t know SignWriting
>>>> at all generally said they see a straight down movement and then a curve,
>>>> which may or may not be repeated. To follow that interpretation of the
>>>> movement, I wrote this option below. I know that it doesn’t have a wrist
>>>> flex, but even when I asked specifically if the sign bends at the wrist, I
>>>> was mostly told it doesn’t matter if it does or not.
>>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34 AM.png>
>>>>
>>>> So it seems that the two main options I have found are <Screen Shot
>>>> 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png> and <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34
>>>> AM.png>. I would personally go with the first option, but I do see the
>>>> thinking behind the second one.
>>>>
>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 17, 2022, at 6:56 AM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Same here. :)
>>>>
>>>> And I think that's good, because the more often we are of the same
>>>> opinion, the higher the probability of success with the sign search.
>>>>
>>>> The exchange is great here!
>>>>
>>>> Uta
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Carlos Cristian Libras <carloscristianlibras at gmail.com> schrieb am
>>>> Do., 17. Feb. 2022, 00:56:
>>>>
>>>>> I Like First entries for "signtesseing". I look clean.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 6:19 PM AnnaGrace Greenfield <
>>>>> msannagrace20 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like the two recent entries for "sightseeing." Thumbs up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~ AnnaGrace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:10 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree that the first writing is probably the most accurate, but it
>>>>>>> just seems to be bigger than the other writings. I just added a couple of
>>>>>>> other spellings, both with the wrist movement written into them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550,11551,11552&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 10:19 AM, AnnaGrace Greenfield <
>>>>>>> msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I looked in the links you provided.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like the first entry for "sightseeing." The second one is okay,
>>>>>>> and I find it acceptable. The third one is understandable, but I like the
>>>>>>> second one better. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If all three remain in the SignPuddle, then these three serve as an
>>>>>>> example of sign variations and of how they can be written in slightly
>>>>>>> different ways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Below is a video link of the sign "sightseeing" being used. It's in *timestamp
>>>>>>> 01:15*. I see the wrist action here. I use the wrist action myself.
>>>>>>> That's why I like the first entry in the SignPuddle. If other signers don't
>>>>>>> use the wrist flick, then entries two and three in the SignPuddle apply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjazaX9YDS0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, that's my feedback. Hope this helps!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> AnnaGrace
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:19 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This has been one sign that I have been trying to see what is the
>>>>>>>> best way to write. It has the similar movement as 22 from earlier
>>>>>>>> discussion except that it uses both hands.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is a video of it for those who aren’t sure of the sign.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/SIGHTSEE/12560/1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here are a few different spellings that I have done of this sign in
>>>>>>>> SignPuddle. I am not sure how I feel about them being the best spelling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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>>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>
>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>>
>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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>>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>
>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>
>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>
>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>
>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>
>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>
>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>
>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>
>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>
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>>>>
>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>
>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
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>>>
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>>>
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>
>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>
>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>
>

________________________________________________

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sutton at signwriting.org

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