[Sw-l] [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing

Uta Meißner uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM
Thu Feb 17 22:23:46 UTC 2022 

Hi all,

I would like to go deeper into signwriting suggestions, from the
perspective of sign search. I think this is also interesting for you if you
want signs to be found.

[image: image.png]
It is important that a symbol with wrist movement is taken, because wrist
movement is to be found via the search. I.e. you should then place the long
arrow so that it covers the stroke of the wrist movement symbol.

[image: image.png]

I am always happy when there are good solutions to transcribe with fewer
symbols.

For our sign search, we defined the following for the common arrow: "both
hands are performed together".

And for this sign "Sightseen" that is not the case. For this we use
"  [image:
be97e70c-f7c2-4155-963f-92767f4d5335.png]  " This means "parallel" -> same
movement and same handshape.

If the sign search is to be successful, then you have to be consistent. And
this is not the case with the first example
[image: image.png]
 , because for the wrist movement 2 arrows are used and for the straight
movement to the right the general arrow. There the second notation
[image: image.png]
is consistent.




[image: image.png]
This sign writing is not right for me, because I see a duplicate movement
and that is not seen on the image.

Best regards
Uta

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 10:08 PM Ms. AnnaGrace <msannagrace20 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Adam,
>
> Excellent points! Thank you.
>
> ~ AnnaGrace
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 2:53 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I wouldn’t be able to make a detailed explanation today, so I will give a
>> short one and then expand on it tomorrow.
>>
>> At first glance, it would seem that these two are the same. However,
>> there is a difference in their meaning.
>>
>> The separated arrows means that the hands are far enough apart that they
>> don’t overlap in their respective paths.
>>
>> With the general movement arrow, it means that the hands move together
>> very closely, almost to the point that they are touching as they move along
>> the same path.
>>
>> Now, having said that, I know that there are some writers who have chosen
>> to use the general movement arrows to also mean that both hands move as a
>> unit regardless of how far apart they are. My understanding is that this is
>> even becoming standard in Brazil. To be honest, that is ok as long as
>> everyone see it the same way and that it doesn’t result in confusion of
>> other signs.
>>
>> I would personally write the first spelling because it is more common for
>> the hands to be farther apart than closer. This is actually how many
>> writers in the US have chosen to write because there are cases when signs
>> are confused if the general arrow is used regardless of how far the hands
>> are apart.
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2022, at 11:39 AM, Ms. AnnaGrace <msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi André,
>>
>> Both spellings mean "MOVE" in ASL to me. They mean the same thing.
>>
>> As for choosing which spelling to use, I would use the second one,
>> because it is more "economical".
>> However, as for the usage of (B), it depends on how much the writer knows
>> SignWriting.
>> I would expect the more knowledgeable and fluent signwriters would come
>> up with that arrowhead in (B);
>> I can imagine the beginner signwriters would more likely use (A).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> AnnaGrace
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 2:07 PM André Thibeault <atg at videotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Val, Adam and everyone,
>>>
>>> Adam and Val: Thank you for your answer.
>>>
>>> Adam signwrote: <A985437A-8542-4AEF-80F7-4F5F7B2FA760.png>
>>>                                      A) MOVE (ASL)
>>>
>>> I signwrite: <D9A076AA-73F1-476A-B4CA-E189C0220E90.png>
>>>                       B) MOVE (ASL)
>>>
>>> Is B) MOVE the correct spelling?  If so, A) MOVE is more commonly used.
>>> B) MOVE is more rarely used. I like an ASL sign for B) MOVE because B) MOVE
>>> is more economical than A) MOVE.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> André
>>>
>>> De : Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Répondre à : "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <
>>> SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>>> Date : Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:55:01 -0800
>>> À : <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>>> Objet : Re: [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing
>>>
>>> That’s part of the reason I asked. ;-) I have several people off the
>>> list that I have been asking as well. Even some who aren’t familiar or
>>> skilled with SignWriting, just to see an alternative view in case there
>>> might be a more simple option.
>>>
>>> So I have settled down with this as the main option:
>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png>
>>>
>>> It actually takes the exact spelling of 22 on both hands. It seems that
>>> most people that I have talked with don’t see the paths overlapping that
>>> often. They can, but not usually.
>>>
>>> If the sign is made larger and/or with more repeated wrist flex, it
>>> seems to be possible that there is an overlapping path. I had tired to
>>> write it like this:
>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.40.39 AM.png>
>>>
>>> But it seems that the above spelling isn’t very readable to many people
>>> of various SignWriting skill levels. So I tried this option below, and it
>>> seems it is more readily understandable.
>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.37.20 AM.png>
>>>
>>> So, if I were to follow the same principle and write the straight
>>> general movement rather than the curved, I found this is actually more
>>> readable than the combined arrows.
>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.43.55 AM.png>
>>>
>>> But now for the curve ball! I have asked several people (off the list)
>>> what movement they see with that sign. The ones that don’t know SignWriting
>>> at all generally said they see a straight down movement and then a curve,
>>> which may or may not be repeated. To follow that interpretation of the
>>> movement, I wrote this option below. I know that it doesn’t have a wrist
>>> flex, but even when I asked specifically if the sign bends at the wrist, I
>>> was mostly told it doesn’t matter if it does or not.
>>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34 AM.png>
>>>
>>> So it seems that the two main options I have found are <Screen Shot
>>> 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png> and <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34
>>> AM.png>. I would personally go with the first option, but I do see the
>>> thinking behind the second one.
>>>
>>> <namesign.png>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> On Feb 17, 2022, at 6:56 AM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Same here. :)
>>>
>>> And I think that's good, because the more often we are of the same
>>> opinion, the higher the probability of success with the sign search.
>>>
>>> The exchange is great here!
>>>
>>> Uta
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos Cristian Libras <carloscristianlibras at gmail.com> schrieb am Do.,
>>> 17. Feb. 2022, 00:56:
>>>
>>>> I Like First entries for "signtesseing". I look clean.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 6:19 PM AnnaGrace Greenfield <
>>>> msannagrace20 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>
>>>>> I like the two recent entries for "sightseeing." Thumbs up!
>>>>>
>>>>> ~ AnnaGrace
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:10 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that the first writing is probably the most accurate, but it
>>>>>> just seems to be bigger than the other writings. I just added a couple of
>>>>>> other spellings, both with the wrist movement written into them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550,11551,11552&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 10:19 AM, AnnaGrace Greenfield <
>>>>>> msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I looked in the links you provided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like the first entry for "sightseeing." The second one is okay, and
>>>>>> I find it acceptable. The third one is understandable, but I like the
>>>>>> second one better. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If all three remain in the SignPuddle, then these three serve as an
>>>>>> example of sign variations and of how they can be written in slightly
>>>>>> different ways.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Below is a video link of the sign "sightseeing" being used. It's in *timestamp
>>>>>> 01:15*. I see the wrist action here. I use the wrist action myself.
>>>>>> That's why I like the first entry in the SignPuddle. If other signers don't
>>>>>> use the wrist flick, then entries two and three in the SignPuddle apply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjazaX9YDS0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that's my feedback. Hope this helps!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> AnnaGrace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:19 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This has been one sign that I have been trying to see what is the
>>>>>>> best way to write. It has the similar movement as 22 from earlier
>>>>>>> discussion except that it uses both hands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is a video of it for those who aren’t sure of the sign.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/SIGHTSEE/12560/1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here are a few different spellings that I have done of this sign in
>>>>>>> SignPuddle. I am not sure how I feel about them being the best spelling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>>>>>>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>>>>>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>>>>>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>
>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>>
>>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>>>>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>
>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>
>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>>
>>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>>
>>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>>>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>>
>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>
>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>
>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>
>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>
>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>>
>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>>
>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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>>>
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>
>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>
>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>
>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>
>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>

________________________________________________


SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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