[Sw-l] [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing

Thu Feb 17 21:07:21 UTC 2022

Adam,

Excellent points! Thank you.

~ AnnaGrace

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 2:53 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com> wrote:

> I wouldn’t be able to make a detailed explanation today, so I will give a
> short one and then expand on it tomorrow.
>
> At first glance, it would seem that these two are the same. However, there
> is a difference in their meaning.
>
> The separated arrows means that the hands are far enough apart that they
> don’t overlap in their respective paths.
>
> With the general movement arrow, it means that the hands move together
> very closely, almost to the point that they are touching as they move along
> the same path.
>
> Now, having said that, I know that there are some writers who have chosen
> to use the general movement arrows to also mean that both hands move as a
> unit regardless of how far apart they are. My understanding is that this is
> even becoming standard in Brazil. To be honest, that is ok as long as
> everyone see it the same way and that it doesn’t result in confusion of
> other signs.
>
> I would personally write the first spelling because it is more common for
> the hands to be farther apart than closer. This is actually how many
> writers in the US have chosen to write because there are cases when signs
> are confused if the general arrow is used regardless of how far the hands
> are apart.
>
>
> Adam
>
> On Feb 17, 2022, at 11:39 AM, Ms. AnnaGrace <msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
>
> Hi André,
>
> Both spellings mean "MOVE" in ASL to me. They mean the same thing.
>
> As for choosing which spelling to use, I would use the second one, because
> it is more "economical".
> However, as for the usage of (B), it depends on how much the writer knows
> SignWriting.
> I would expect the more knowledgeable and fluent signwriters would come up
> with that arrowhead in (B);
> I can imagine the beginner signwriters would more likely use (A).
>
> Cheers,
> AnnaGrace
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 2:07 PM André Thibeault <atg at videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hi Val, Adam and everyone,
>>
>> Adam and Val: Thank you for your answer.
>>
>> Adam signwrote: <A985437A-8542-4AEF-80F7-4F5F7B2FA760.png>
>>                                      A) MOVE (ASL)
>>
>> I signwrite: <D9A076AA-73F1-476A-B4CA-E189C0220E90.png>
>>                       B) MOVE (ASL)
>>
>> Is B) MOVE the correct spelling?  If so, A) MOVE is more commonly used.
>> B) MOVE is more rarely used. I like an ASL sign for B) MOVE because B) MOVE
>> is more economical than A) MOVE.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> André
>>
>> De : Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>
>> Répondre à : "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <
>> SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>> Date : Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:55:01 -0800
>> À : <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
>> Objet : Re: [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing
>>
>> That’s part of the reason I asked. ;-) I have several people off the list
>> that I have been asking as well. Even some who aren’t familiar or skilled
>> with SignWriting, just to see an alternative view in case there might be a
>> more simple option.
>>
>> So I have settled down with this as the main option:
>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png>
>>
>> It actually takes the exact spelling of 22 on both hands. It seems that
>> most people that I have talked with don’t see the paths overlapping that
>> often. They can, but not usually.
>>
>> If the sign is made larger and/or with more repeated wrist flex, it seems
>> to be possible that there is an overlapping path. I had tired to write it
>> like this:
>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.40.39 AM.png>
>>
>> But it seems that the above spelling isn’t very readable to many people
>> of various SignWriting skill levels. So I tried this option below, and it
>> seems it is more readily understandable.
>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.37.20 AM.png>
>>
>> So, if I were to follow the same principle and write the straight general
>> movement rather than the curved, I found this is actually more readable
>> than the combined arrows.
>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.43.55 AM.png>
>>
>> But now for the curve ball! I have asked several people (off the list)
>> what movement they see with that sign. The ones that don’t know SignWriting
>> at all generally said they see a straight down movement and then a curve,
>> which may or may not be repeated. To follow that interpretation of the
>> movement, I wrote this option below. I know that it doesn’t have a wrist
>> flex, but even when I asked specifically if the sign bends at the wrist, I
>> was mostly told it doesn’t matter if it does or not.
>> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34 AM.png>
>>
>> So it seems that the two main options I have found are <Screen Shot
>> 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png> and <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34
>> AM.png>. I would personally go with the first option, but I do see the
>> thinking behind the second one.
>>
>> <namesign.png>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2022, at 6:56 AM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Same here. :)
>>
>> And I think that's good, because the more often we are of the same
>> opinion, the higher the probability of success with the sign search.
>>
>> The exchange is great here!
>>
>> Uta
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlos Cristian Libras <carloscristianlibras at gmail.com> schrieb am Do.,
>> 17. Feb. 2022, 00:56:
>>
>>> I Like First entries for "signtesseing". I look clean.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 6:19 PM AnnaGrace Greenfield <
>>> msannagrace20 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>
>>>> I like the two recent entries for "sightseeing." Thumbs up!
>>>>
>>>> ~ AnnaGrace
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:10 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree that the first writing is probably the most accurate, but it
>>>>> just seems to be bigger than the other writings. I just added a couple of
>>>>> other spellings, both with the wrist movement written into them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550,11551,11552&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&
>>>>>
>>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>>> Adam
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 10:19 AM, AnnaGrace Greenfield <
>>>>> msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>
>>>>> I looked in the links you provided.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like the first entry for "sightseeing." The second one is okay, and
>>>>> I find it acceptable. The third one is understandable, but I like the
>>>>> second one better. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> If all three remain in the SignPuddle, then these three serve as an
>>>>> example of sign variations and of how they can be written in slightly
>>>>> different ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> Below is a video link of the sign "sightseeing" being used. It's in *timestamp
>>>>> 01:15*. I see the wrist action here. I use the wrist action myself.
>>>>> That's why I like the first entry in the SignPuddle. If other signers don't
>>>>> use the wrist flick, then entries two and three in the SignPuddle apply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjazaX9YDS0
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that's my feedback. Hope this helps!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> AnnaGrace
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:19 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This has been one sign that I have been trying to see what is the
>>>>>> best way to write. It has the similar movement as 22 from earlier
>>>>>> discussion except that it uses both hands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is a video of it for those who aren’t sure of the sign.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/SIGHTSEE/12560/1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are a few different spellings that I have done of this sign in
>>>>>> SignPuddle. I am not sure how I feel about them being the best spelling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
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>>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>
>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
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>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>>
>>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
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>>>> ________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>>
>>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>>
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>>>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
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>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
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>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>
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>>
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
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>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
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> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
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>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
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