[Sw-l] [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing

Adam Frost icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM
Thu Feb 17 19:53:02 UTC 2022 

I wouldn’t be able to make a detailed explanation today, so I will give a short one and then expand on it tomorrow.

At first glance, it would seem that these two are the same. However, there is a difference in their meaning.

The separated arrows means that the hands are far enough apart that they don’t overlap in their respective paths.

With the general movement arrow, it means that the hands move together very closely, almost to the point that they are touching as they move along the same path.

Now, having said that, I know that there are some writers who have chosen to use the general movement arrows to also mean that both hands move as a unit regardless of how far apart they are. My understanding is that this is even becoming standard in Brazil. To be honest, that is ok as long as everyone see it the same way and that it doesn’t result in confusion of other signs.

I would personally write the first spelling because it is more common for the hands to be farther apart than closer. This is actually how many writers in the US have chosen to write because there are cases when signs are confused if the general arrow is used regardless of how far the hands are apart.


Adam

> On Feb 17, 2022, at 11:39 AM, Ms. AnnaGrace <msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Hi André,
> 
> Both spellings mean "MOVE" in ASL to me. They mean the same thing. 
> 
> As for choosing which spelling to use, I would use the second one, because it is more "economical". 
> However, as for the usage of (B), it depends on how much the writer knows SignWriting. 
> I would expect the more knowledgeable and fluent signwriters would come up with that arrowhead in (B);
> I can imagine the beginner signwriters would more likely use (A).
> 
> Cheers,
> AnnaGrace
> 
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 2:07 PM André Thibeault <atg at videotron.ca <mailto:atg at videotron.ca>> wrote:
> Hi Val, Adam and everyone,
> 
> Adam and Val: Thank you for your answer.
> 
> Adam signwrote: <A985437A-8542-4AEF-80F7-4F5F7B2FA760.png>
>                                      A) MOVE (ASL)
> 
> I signwrite: <D9A076AA-73F1-476A-B4CA-E189C0220E90.png>
>                       B) MOVE (ASL)
> 
> Is B) MOVE the correct spelling?  If so, A) MOVE is more commonly used. B) MOVE is more rarely used. I like an ASL sign for B) MOVE because B) MOVE is more economical than A) MOVE.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> André
> 
> De : Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM <mailto:icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>>
> Répondre à : "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>>
> Date : Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:55:01 -0800
> À : <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <mailto:SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>>
> Objet : Re: [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing
> 
> That’s part of the reason I asked. ;-) I have several people off the list that I have been asking as well. Even some who aren’t familiar or skilled with SignWriting, just to see an alternative view in case there might be a more simple option.
> 
> So I have settled down with this as the main option:
> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png>
> 
> It actually takes the exact spelling of 22 on both hands. It seems that most people that I have talked with don’t see the paths overlapping that often. They can, but not usually.
> 
> If the sign is made larger and/or with more repeated wrist flex, it seems to be possible that there is an overlapping path. I had tired to write it like this:
> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.40.39 AM.png>
> 
> But it seems that the above spelling isn’t very readable to many people of various SignWriting skill levels. So I tried this option below, and it seems it is more readily understandable.
> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.37.20 AM.png>
> 
> So, if I were to follow the same principle and write the straight general movement rather than the curved, I found this is actually more readable than the combined arrows.
> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.43.55 AM.png>
> 
> But now for the curve ball! I have asked several people (off the list) what movement they see with that sign. The ones that don’t know SignWriting at all generally said they see a straight down movement and then a curve, which may or may not be repeated. To follow that interpretation of the movement, I wrote this option below. I know that it doesn’t have a wrist flex, but even when I asked specifically if the sign bends at the wrist, I was mostly told it doesn’t matter if it does or not.
> <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34 AM.png>
> 
> So it seems that the two main options I have found are <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png> and <Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34 AM.png>. I would personally go with the first option, but I do see the thinking behind the second one.
> 
> <namesign.png>
> Adam
> 
>> On Feb 17, 2022, at 6:56 AM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM <mailto:uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM>> wrote:
>> 
>> Same here. :) 
>> 
>> And I think that's good, because the more often we are of the same opinion, the higher the probability of success with the sign search. 
>> 
>> The exchange is great here! 
>> 
>> Uta
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Carlos Cristian Libras <carloscristianlibras at gmail.com <mailto:carloscristianlibras at gmail.com>> schrieb am Do., 17. Feb. 2022, 00:56:
>> I Like First entries for "signtesseing". I look clean.
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 6:19 PM AnnaGrace Greenfield <msannagrace20 at gmail.com <mailto:msannagrace20 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi Adam,
>> 
>> I like the two recent entries for "sightseeing." Thumbs up!
>> 
>> ~ AnnaGrace
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:10 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com <mailto:icemandeaf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I agree that the first writing is probably the most accurate, but it just seems to be bigger than the other writings. I just added a couple of other spellings, both with the wrist movement written into them.
>> 
>> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550,11551,11552&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=& <https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550,11551,11552&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&>
>> 
>> <namesign.png>
>> Adam
>> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 10:19 AM, AnnaGrace Greenfield <msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM <mailto:msannagrace20 at GMAIL.COM>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Adam,
>>> 
>>> I looked in the links you provided.
>>> 
>>> I like the first entry for "sightseeing." The second one is okay, and I find it acceptable. The third one is understandable, but I like the second one better. :-) 
>>> 
>>> If all three remain in the SignPuddle, then these three serve as an example of sign variations and of how they can be written in slightly different ways.
>>> 
>>> Below is a video link of the sign "sightseeing" being used. It's in timestamp 01:15. I see the wrist action here. I use the wrist action myself. That's why I like the first entry in the SignPuddle. If other signers don't use the wrist flick, then entries two and three in the SignPuddle apply. 
>>> 
>>> Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjazaX9YDS0 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjazaX9YDS0>
>>> 
>>> Well, that's my feedback. Hope this helps!
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> AnnaGrace
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:19 PM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com <mailto:icemandeaf at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> This has been one sign that I have been trying to see what is the best way to write. It has the similar movement as 22 from earlier discussion except that it uses both hands.
>>> 
>>> Here is a video of it for those who aren’t sure of the sign.
>>> 
>>> https://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/SIGHTSEE/12560/1 <https://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/SIGHTSEE/12560/1>
>>> 
>>> Here are a few different spellings that I have done of this sign in SignPuddle. I am not sure how I feel about them being the best spelling.
>>> 
>>> https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=& <https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&>
>>> 
>>> <namesign.png>
>>> Adam
>>> 
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