[Sw-l] General movement arrowhead

Fri Feb 25 02:21:52 UTC 2022

Hi everyone,

Yesterday, I talked about a first definition (with contact) and a second
definition (no contact).  A signwriter signwrote:  (DRESSER  ASL).  Is
similar to .  According to the second definition (no contact),  in incorrect
because two hands do not move down "the same path".  I show you the correct
spelling and I invent a new sign. I signwrite: .  Which Is smiler to .
According to the second definition (no contact),  is correct because two
hands move down "the same path".  I understand the second definition. But,
there is a conflict between the visual perception and the second
definition.. According to my visual perception,   is correct because two
hands move down in "the same direction" (ex.:    = ).   When I read , I
perceive it and interpret .  I mean that  movedown at the same time what I
see. You remember   (ASK LSQ) and  (PLAN ASL).  (neutral or general
arrowhead) is used for ,  and  which move at the same time what I see.  I
should not be alone to use the neutral or general movement arrowhead for .
It is important that a signwriting community uses it.  I would like that you
observe below  which is used by signwriters from all over the world.

By Sandy Fleming      By Dali                By Honza
>From Great Britain    from Tunisia    from CZ

By Ingvild                By Aline           By AnHL
>From Norway         from Brazil      from Switnerland

By Juliette                          By ???                    By E.S
>From France                     from Japan           from Slovenia

I mean that I am not alone.  Where do signwriters learn above ?  They did
not study a textbook (ex.: ). Their eyes tell their brain what they see
because the natural brain work.  For ,  can be used for .   cannot be used
for .  I develop a third definition. The neutral or general movement
arrowhead is defined as  both hands moving in the same direction.  The
first, second and third definitions will become one definition.

I will send you a message for one definition  this week or next week.

Best regards,

André

De :  Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>
Répondre à :  "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages"
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
Date :  Wed, 23 Feb 2022 11:45:58 -0800
À :  <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
Objet :  Re: General movement arrowhead

Sorry that you weren¹t able to view the video. If there is somehow that I
can adjust it so you can see the arrows connecting to the various movements
that I make, just let me know and I will make it. :-)

Regarding the first definition of these arrows, you are right that it was
defined as ³two hands move as one unit². The talk about it being with
contact was an example because that is the most common situation.

The deeper definition (and probably older definition from DanceWriting and
MimeWriting) is that the two hands move along the same path. Basically it
would be like both the black and white arrows being written on top of each
other. 

These are good illustrations of what I am saying above:
 becomes  ASK (LSQ)

 becomes  PLAN (ASL)

You are right that the second example doesn¹t have contact, which is what
might confuse people for the correct way to use these arrows.

Now for your example of my writing of DRESSER (ASL) . I wrote that sign a
long time ago when I was experimenting with probably the same issue you are
talking about now. I am not saying that because I wrote this, that I feel it
is correctly written. It was an experiment, and it still is because I need
more feedback on how people read it.

Adam

> On Feb 23, 2022, at 11:31 AM, André Thibeault <atg at VIDEOTRON.CA> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> <6E24C72C-98E9-450D-9D14-EBEF0FBDEAD9.png>    =
> <28BEBD6D-4D4F-4F54-816C-39C7EC3B2179.png>
> PLAN (ASL)
> 
> When my beginner reader read <0DDC7AB8-934F-4B2B-A093-166FB43C8B38.png>, I was
> surprised because I didn't see any <4DE9D5B2-BB08-4453-A510-F87F81ADA578.png>
> (contact). I figured it out.  I looked at the first definition of
> <5749BB77-5AE4-47EB-B392-2D493F06A8C4.png>. I created a new second definition:
> Two hands move as one unit. When both hands do not contact, and move together
> in the same direction, they move as one unit.
> <949BBC52-BF27-4047-A090-7485EEC7DDAE.png> (two hands) move from left to right
> at the same time what I see.  <D80AFDDE-1315-4243-9408-1E4B58E5BA01.png>
> (moving from left to right) what I do not really see.  But, I understand that
> when <B6B9CA16-FCC3-4F63-88D4-06ABAABE4F81.png> (both hands) do not contact
> (<05C0F6D3-188E-4CF5-B0D1-6FF70C77C25E.png> is not used), and
> <4D89BDFE-3ACE-42A6-AF89-7B3C1F5C54EC.png> (move together in the same
> direction, <64A0A698-6139-4232-AFFE-EB251FDAEAFA.png>  (they move as one
> unit).
> 
> When I read <C033D1C5-7F6B-4AD9-965C-BA6427ABDB77.png>,  I interpret
> <F1CE5F3D-88AF-477A-B91C-4CEC27399D27.png>.   I mean that
> <96D17268-41D7-495E-AD68-4200B28CBB6C.png> move from left to right at the same
> time what I see.  I imagine that <91DED864-2EF3-4C81-8B1B-B1FEF2A88205.png> is
> more important than <BCAAEF48-2632-4783-B76D-DCECA8CCF567.png>.
> 
> Tomorrow, I will send a message for
> <3AB3472B-0C2F-4939-B587-41552B1632C8.png>.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> André
> 
> De :  Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM>
> Répondre à :  "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages"
> <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Date :  Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:03:30 -0800
> À :  <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Objet :  Re: General movement arrowhead
> 
> Here are a couple of simple videos showing the difference between Black
> Arrowheads, White Arrowheads, and General Arrowheads. Note that these are
> following the way the arrows are defined (right hand movement, left hand
> movement, and overlapping hand
> movement).<B67573A9-C7EB-468E-99D8-FC0785ED9C99.png> (move together in the
> same direction), 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> 
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> 
> Adam
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1<6E24C72C-98E9-4
> 50D-9D14-EBEF0FBDEAD9.png><0DDC7AB8-934F-4B2B-A093-166FB43C8B38.png><28BEBD6D-
> 4D4F-4F54-816C-39C7EC3B2179.png><4DE9D5B2-BB08-4453-A510-F87F81ADA578.png><574
> 9BB77-5AE4-47EB-B392-2D493F06A8C4.png><949BBC52-BF27-4047-A090-7485EEC7DDAE.pn
> g><D80AFDDE-1315-4243-9408-1E4B58E5BA01.png><B6B9CA16-FCC3-4F63-88D4-06ABAABE4
> F81.png><05C0F6D3-188E-4CF5-B0D1-6FF70C77C25E.png><B67573A9-C7EB-468E-99D8-FC0
> 785ED9C99.png><64A0A698-6139-4232-AFFE-EB251FDAEAFA.png><C033D1C5-7F6B-4AD9-96
> 5C-BA6427ABDB77.png><F1CE5F3D-88AF-477A-B91C-4CEC27399D27.png><96D17268-41D7-4
> 95E-AD68-4200B28CBB6C.png><91DED864-2EF3-4C81-8B1B-B1FEF2A88205.png><BCAAEF48-
> 2632-4783-B76D-DCECA8CCF567.png><3AB3472B-0C2F-4939-B587-41552B1632C8.png><4D8
> 9BDFE-3ACE-42A6-AF89-7B3C1F5C54EC.png>

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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