[Sw-l] What better way to write sign with more moves and handshapes

Thu May 5 00:16:25 UTC 2022

Hi Uta and everyone,

I use LSQ (Quebec Sign Language). You wrote: A question for all, there are
thin "^" and thick "^". What is the difference?  Val or Adam will answer
your question. You will see below the attachment.
Best regards

André
De :  Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM>
Répondre à :  "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages"
<SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
Date :  Wed, 04 May 2022 22:24:26 +0200
À :  <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
Objet :  Re: What better way to write sign with more moves and handshapes

Hi Andre,

very interesting to hear, what " ^ " does mean for you.

I don't know, which sign language do you use. I use DGS, german sign
language. I have to think long and hard to find a gesture in which a fist
turns into a flat hand. And I have to say, I can't think of one. So I
selected fist and finger movement at sign2mint.de <http://sign2mint.de> .
There are about 300 matches out of 5000, all to "5".

A question for all, there are thin "^" and thick "^". What ist the
difference? 

Greetings Uta

André Thibeault <atg at videotron.ca> schrieb am Mi., 4. Mai 2022, 19:18:
> Hi Uta and everyrone,
> 
> 
>  Is similar to .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Is not similar to ,
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards
> 
> 
> 
> André
> 
> 
> De :  Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM>
> Répondre à :  "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages"
> <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Date :  Wed, 04 May 2022 14:35:21 +0200
> À :  <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Objet :  Re: What better way to write sign with more moves and handshapes
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I would take example (4), because the hand will be open during movement.
> If the reader knows signwriting well, then I would like to reduce the symbols.
> 
> There is the symbol for opening the fingers.  " ^ "
> 
> I'm interested if you guys can read my proposed signwriting better.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, not always only the first hand form is enough, sometimes you need the
> end hand form for that. How about highlighting the two hand shapes in
> different colors. Start handshape -> dark gray and end handshape -> black?
> 
> 
> 
> Uta
> 
> On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 2:19 AM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Rubens,
>> 
>> A very good question. I don¹t think there is any ³standard² guideline about
>> how to write these cases. It is really what is the most readable to those who
>> use the language.
>> 
>> Since I am not native to Libras, I can¹t give you a definite answer for both
>> spelling. However, I can give you some help regardless as a native signer.
>> :-)
>> 
>> When I personally face these sort of issues, I ask myself if the sign is a
>> compound, which means there are two separate parts to the sign as if they had
>> their own separate meaning. The English words for audiovisual and SIgnWriting
>> are compounds (audio + visual and Sign + Writing). So with that in mind, when
>> I look at the sign for ³audiovisual² in your video, I get the feeling there
>> are two parts. Because of that, I would pick the first example because it is
>> written to show the separation. (Although I would reduce the gap between so
>> they aren¹t read as separate words.)
>> 
>> 
>> Of course, since I am not a native Libras signer  my Libras is minimum at
>> most  my interpretation could be wrong and there isn¹t a compound in two
>> signs here. If that were the case, the second spelling might be better.
>> However, I would suggest a minor change in spelling since I didn¹t see an
>> inward traveling movement between the first and second handshape like there
>> was to the last handshape. (I placed the handshape above, but it could also
>> be placed next to as well.)
>> 
>> 
>> The same could be said for the Libras sign for SignWriting. The first example
>> is written as if it is a compound, while the second spelling is written as if
>> it were one sign. To me as a non-native Libras signer, I don¹t see that sign
>> as a compound and would probably use the second spelling. But maybe it is a
>> compound and should be written as in the first spelling.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>>> On May 3, 2022, at 4:23 PM, Profo Rubens Almeida
>>> <rubens.escritadesinais at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone on the SignWriting List,
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Recently there was a question that we talked about in the SignWriting Brasil
>>> WhatsApp group regarding how to write a sign that uses more movements and
>>> more than one handshape. The example was the audiovisual spelling in Libras.
>>> There was a member of the group that did the direct writing (term I use for
>>> writing that is not done and 2 steps), however, I found the writing to be
>>> confusing, difficult to read, so I suggested writing in 2 steps (according
>>> to example (1) of theattached video) in order to facilitate reading.
>>> I learned from Adam that this is the best option in these cases, when some
>>> time ago I introduced him to the SignWriting script used in Libras with two
>>> writing possibilities. Adam explained that the writing (from example 3 in
>>> the attached video) was more readable.
>>> My question is how can I understand when I can use direct writing in order
>>> to save graphemes and spaces when writing signs with more movements and more
>>> than one handshape, and also where can I find more guidelines, references to
>>> publications that clarify this question .
>>> Thank you in advance for everyone's attention and support!
>>> Here's a link to the video on YouTube:
>>> https://youtu.be/IxD7Kfc2uow
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hugs!
>>> Rubens Almeida
>>> 
>>>  Questionamento no SignWriting List.mp4
>>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1faO20kT8VHNk4EiTzQlcw1bUbta_00jO/view?usp=
>>> drive_web> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> 
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>> 
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>> 
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>> 
>>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>>> 
>>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>> 
>> ________________________________________________
>> 
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>> 
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>> 
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>> 
>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
>> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>> 
>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
>> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> 
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> 
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> 
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> 
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> 
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> 
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20220504/76ae7012/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 3489090C-9D92-4310-9B9B-78C31AC98101.png
Type: image/png
Size: 96127 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/sw-l/attachments/20220504/76ae7012/attachment.png>