[Sw-l] What better way to write sign with more moves and handshapes

Thu May 5 01:29:23 UTC 2022

SignWriting List
May 4, 2022

Hello André and Uta -

I love this explanation, André. Thank you. You are an excellent teacher. And we write the same ;-)

So, Uta, although I can understand the desire to shorten writing when writing by hand, in handwriting for speed, when it comes to publishing written signs, that are written by computer, it is usually worth it to write both handshapes in full, if two handshapes are needed in a sign. It helps the reader greatly to really know how to end the sign in this case.

André’s example shows that an A hand has the fingers close and tight in a fist. And to simply open the fingers from there, the fingers are still close and tight in the flat hand. Because the Open Finger Movement Symbol does not state that the fingers also "spread apart", as well as open straight up. So the reader has to “guess” the finishing position.

So looking at your writing:

I am unable to read it because I am not sure how the A hand is opening while doing the circle. Is it circling with a Flat Hand?

I am guessing that you probably mean for it to become a W handshape that maybe means “SignWriting” or “SW”? But I do not know it will become a W …that isn’t clear. And I do not think this has anything to do with which sign language we know, because SignWriting is pretty universal in the general movement writing from position to position.

Regarding using colors - that of course is computer writing - and colors are fine but it doesn’t tell me what the finishing handshape is… 

I know you have written another message and I am interested and will read it now ;-)

Val ;-)

-----------

> On May 4, 2022, at 10:10 AM, André Thibeault <atg at VIDEOTRON.CA> wrote:
> 
> Hi Uta and everyrone,
> 
> 
>  Is similar to .
> 
> 
> 
>  Is not similar to ,
> 
> Best regards
> 
> André
> 
> De : Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM>
> Répondre à : "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Date : Wed, 04 May 2022 14:35:21 +0200
> À : <SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU>
> Objet : Re: What better way to write sign with more moves and handshapes
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I would take example (4), because the hand will be open during movement. 
> If the reader knows signwriting well, then I would like to reduce the symbols.
> 
> There is the symbol for opening the fingers.  " ^ "
> 
> I'm interested if you guys can read my proposed signwriting better.
> 
> 
> 
> I know, not always only the first hand form is enough, sometimes you need the end hand form for that. How about highlighting the two hand shapes in different colors. Start handshape -> dark gray and end handshape -> black?
> 
> 
> 
> Uta
> 
> On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 2:19 AM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Rubens,
>> 
>> A very good question. I don’t think there is any “standard” guideline about how to write these cases. It is really what is the most readable to those who use the language.
>> 
>> Since I am not native to Libras, I can’t give you a definite answer for both spelling. However, I can give you some help regardless as a native signer. :-)
>> 
>> When I personally face these sort of issues, I ask myself if the sign is a compound, which means there are two separate parts to the sign as if they had their own separate meaning. The English words for audiovisual and SIgnWriting are compounds (audio + visual and Sign + Writing). So with that in mind, when I look at the sign for “audiovisual” in your video, I get the feeling there are two parts. Because of that, I would pick the first example because it is written to show the separation. (Although I would reduce the gap between so they aren’t read as separate words.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Of course, since I am not a native Libras signer – my Libras is minimum at most – my interpretation could be wrong and there isn’t a compound in two signs here. If that were the case, the second spelling might be better. However, I would suggest a minor change in spelling since I didn’t see an inward traveling movement between the first and second handshape like there was to the last handshape. (I placed the handshape above, but it could also be placed next to as well.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The same could be said for the Libras sign for SignWriting. The first example is written as if it is a compound, while the second spelling is written as if it were one sign. To me as a non-native Libras signer, I don’t see that sign as a compound and would probably use the second spelling. But maybe it is a compound and should be written as in the first spelling.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>>> On May 3, 2022, at 4:23 PM, Profo Rubens Almeida <rubens.escritadesinais at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone on the SignWriting List,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Recently there was a question that we talked about in the SignWriting Brasil WhatsApp group regarding how to write a sign that uses more movements and more than one handshape. The example was the audiovisual spelling in Libras. There was a member of the group that did the direct writing (term I use for writing that is not done and 2 steps), however, I found the writing to be confusing, difficult to read, so I suggested writing in 2 steps (according to example (1) of theattached video) in order to facilitate reading.
>>> 
>>> I learned from Adam that this is the best option in these cases, when some time ago I introduced him to the SignWriting script used in Libras with two writing possibilities. Adam explained that the writing (from example 3 in the attached video) was more readable.
>>> 
>>> My question is how can I understand when I can use direct writing in order to save graphemes and spaces when writing signs with more movements and more than one handshape, and also where can I find more guidelines, references to publications that clarify this question .
>>> 
>>> Thank you in advance for everyone's attention and support!
>>> 
>>> Here's a link to the video on YouTube:
>>> 
>>> https://youtu.be/IxD7Kfc2uow
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hugs!
>>> 
>>> Rubens Almeida
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Questionamento no SignWriting List.mp4
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________________________
>>> 
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
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>> 
>> ________________________________________________
>> 
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1 

________________________________________________

SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
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