[Sw-l] Revisiting Mundbildschrift

Mon Jul 1 21:29:30 UTC 2024

Hi Craxton -
for rebuilding the delegs editor, I recommend to just use
https://www.sutton-signwriting.io/signmaker/index.html#
it can be used by external programs as well
https://www.sutton-signwriting.io/signmaker/demo.html#?fsw=M512x515S11e00489x485
and is quite the nice editor, in my opinion.

As for finishing up the list of symbols -
after speaking with Stefan, I completed the list:
https://github.com/sign-language-processing/signwriting/tree/main/signwriting/mouthing
It is now easy to automatically convert spoken language words to Mouthings
in SignWriting.

All the best,
Amit

On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 6:34 PM Craxton Peter Jakob <
Peter-Jakob.Craxton at haw-landshut.de> wrote:

> Hello Val, hello everyone,
>
>
> that is a perfect prove for our SignWriting telepathy. ;-)
>
>
> There is still a active Delegs editor (
> https://apps.delegs.de/delegseditor/#) but it is not more supported by
> WPS.
>
> It means that we cannot save new files of ISWA signs. At least, we can
> save the signwriting text in PDF.
>
>
> The upgrading of editor program is difficult because we need find a
> professional person with the knowledge of Google Web Toolkit.
>
>
> It would be fanastic if we could rebuild the editor program with other
> code program (e.g. Python, C++ or Java), where we can give more inputs. I
> will talk with my colleague about rebuilding editor programm.
>
>
> I wish you all good start into the new week!
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *Von:* Sw-l <sw-l-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> im Auftrag von
> Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 27. Juni 2024 22:56:59
> *An:* sw-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Betreff:* Re: [Sw-l] Revisiting Mundbildschrift
>
> SignWriting List
> June 27, 2024
>
> Hello Amit, Stefan and everyone!
>
> I have had such a remarkable and unusual day. The discussion of
> Mundbildschrift is very meaningful, and then our internet has been down in
> my home so I could not respond immediately. It just came on again. And
> guess who called me while I had no internet? Stefan!
>
> Stefan is retired as a teacher of Deaf children, as you know, but he calls
> me sometimes and I told him - “Have you seen our discussion about
> Mundbildschrift on the SW List?”
>
> And he had not realized we were talking about it!
>
> It was a coincidence that he called me today. One of the many things he
> mentioned to me today was his students and he could read it like reading
> German words - they could and do read the symbols just like reading words
> and that it evolved over time - so this must be the reason why we see it
> changing over the years - the students wrote it by hand on the green board,
> so the symbols got exagerated - also remember there is the DELEGS computer
> program - I do not know what they have stored in their Editor program there
> may be symbols there.
>
> So I believe you need to know how he constructed the special symbols, with
> what pieces of symbols, to make his Mundbildschrift go fast while using
> SignPuddle 2?
>
> I have a lot more I can tell you but at least I am back on the internet!
> Thank you to the internet Gods ;-)
>
> Also Stefan mentioned that he animated it too -
>
>
>
>
>
> Val ;-)
>
> Valerie Sutton
> sutton at signwriting.org
> SignWriting.org
>
> Post a message to the SignWriting List:
> Sw-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
>
> Join the SignWriting List:
> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
>
> SignWriting List Archives
> https://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> _____________________
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 27, 2024, at 12:24 PM, Amit Moryossef <amitmoryossef at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Val!
> > Unfortunately, in his old writing, he didn't really conform to the
> guidebook he released -
> > for example, a long "a" sound has this strange shape in the manual:
> >
> >
> > but in his writing, he wrote a normal "a" like in Saal or Bahn:
> >
> >
> > And this pattern persists with other shapes, like "ɛː" which is written
> as an "e" or "ç" written like an "h".
> >
> > Therefore, I decided to populate the values with his writing style for
> now, and include the original images he made to compare.
> > Here is the current version, with a comparison:
> >
> https://github.com/sign-language-processing/signwriting/tree/main/signwriting/mouthing
> >
> > Amit
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 5:47 PM Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
> wrote:
> > SignWriting List
> > June 27, 2024
> >
> > Hello Amit, AnnaGrace, Craxton, Stefan -
> >
> > There are so many ways to find the symbols that are used to write
> Mundbildschrift in SignPuddle 2. Here is how I will do this, so you can see
> the symbols that are used from the current International SignWriting
> Alphabet 2010. First I went to SignPuddle 2 and chose the German flag to
> take me to the German Sign Language Dictionary area. Then, in the German
> Sign Language Dictionary, I searched for the source “SW” which stands for
> Stefan Woehrmann. So I found a listing of all of the signs that Stefan had
> written using the symbols from ISWA 2010.
> >
> > So all of the signs he wrote appear in a long list. I chose this one:
> >
> > https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/canvas.php?ui=8&sgn=53&sid=3714
> >
> > It is PuddlePage 3714. It is the number “1000”, tausend, written by
> Stefan on September 14, 2007. SignPuddle 2 will give you the FSW and the
> SWU for that writing, which gives you the symbols he used from the ISWA
> 2010 at that time. This is one of several ways to find the symbols he used
> that are already in FSW and SWU. I will show you other methods of searching
> next.
> >
> > Here is a screen capture of that page:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 27, 2024, at 2:26 AM, Amit Moryossef <amitmoryossef at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Craxton. If you could connect me with Thimo Kleyboldt that
> would be great.
> > >
> > > And thanks Valerie! with the updated resource from 2014, and pointing
> out the inhale/exhale symbols, we are now done with 39/49 visemes!
> > > Only 10 more to go. If you have any ideas on how to address them, that
> would be great :)
> > >
> > > what are the symbols used for the mouths here?>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > for these - the mouth is specifically not round. what symbol should I
> alternate for?>
> > >
> > >
> > > not sure how to draw this mouth and tongue: (different than "n")>
> > >
> > > these three are also quite special, any ideas?>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 12:18 AM Valerie Sutton <
> sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
> > > SignWriting List
> > > June 26, 2024
> > >
> > > Hello Amit,
> > > Thank you for this important interest in Mundbildschrift.
> > >
> > > And thank you, Stefan Woehrmann, for giving Mundbildschrift to the
> world. I used to call it “SpeechWriting” in English, but others called it
> LipWriting or Mouth Writing ;-)
> > >
> > > No matter what it was called, it is very innovative and successful.
> > >
> > > Regarding documents, there are other publications on Mundbildschrift
> at later dates after 2010, in books as well as the internet. I will try to
> provide you with some links. It started to spread in Brazil too, so it is
> not only Germany.
> > >
> > > For example, here are some published in 2014, at the SignWriting
> Symposium 2014:
> > >
> > > https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0002.html
> > >
> > >
> https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/archive/sws0002_Abstract_Woerhmann's_SpeechWriting_Teaches_Spoken_Language.pdf
> > >
> > >
> https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/archive/sws0002_01_How_I_teach_Mundbildschrift.pdf
> > >
> > >
> https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/archive/sws0002_02_Mundbilder_in_SignWriting_and_Spelling_rules.pdf
> > >
> > >
> https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/archive/sws0002_03_ABC_in_Mundbildschrift_For_English.pdf
> > >
> > >
> https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/archive/sws0002_04_ABC_Tabelle_neu_SW_Deutsch.pdf
> > >
> > > This one is dated 2014
> > >
> https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/archive/sws0002_05_Overview_of_Symbols_in_Mundbildschrift_Juli_2014.pdf
> > >
> > > All of the symbols in Mundbildschrift originally were based on the
> symbols in Sutton SignWriting, but then they were somewhat exagerated or
> stylized to look a little different but very close to the original…
> > >
> > > For a sample, look at the attached screen capture from SWU - these are
> SignWriting symbols for Air - they look slightly different, but very close
> to the ones used in Mundbildschrift
> > >
> > > And they are not arm lines!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Jun 26, 2024, at 8:29 AM, Amit Moryossef <amitmoryossef at GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > I've been interested in writing mouthing using SignWriting, and
> encountered Mundbildschrift,
> > > > with the latest documentation being here from 2010.
> > > >
> > > > I modernized that document, collecting all the samples, correcting
> IPA when needed, and re-writing the SignWriting in FSW instead of using
> images.
> > > >
> > > >
> https://github.com/sign-language-processing/signwriting/tree/main/signwriting/mouthing
> > > > However, as you can see, I am missing many writings, specifically
> ones that are not easily available, for example:>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Therefore, I would appreciate any help to modernize this, by sending
> me any of the missing writing from the table or discussing alternatives. In
> my opinion, the writing should be efficient - I could write the last image
> above (with a plosive) using 6 different arms, but that seems like a waste.
> > > >
> > > > Looking forward to seeing your suggestions!
> > > > Amit
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sw-l mailing list
> > > > Sw-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > > > https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sw-l mailing list
> > > Sw-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > > https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sw-l mailing list
> > > Sw-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > > https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
> >
> > Val ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Valerie Sutton
> > sutton at signwiting.org
> > SignWriting.org
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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