coffin pronunciation

Sat Mar 15 19:57:12 UTC 2008

At 7:14 PM +0000 3/15/08, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>Actually it's the reverse.
>See Bert Vaux's American Dialect study at
>http://www4.uwm.edu//FLL/linguistics/dialect/maps.html
>It has maps of dialect areas.  Number 28 is the caught/cot question.
>It shows western prevalence for pronouncing cot/caught the same.

Actually, that's not quite right.  Two different issues are involved
here, which you're treating as the same issue.  It's long been
recognized that the cot/caught merger is more likely to appear in
western U.S. English than in the eastern states.  But if you've been
reading this thread, you'll have seen that a number of the
northeastern respondents are claiming that (i) they do make the
distinction in environments like "caught" vs. "cot" (open-o vs. /a/
respectively) but (ii) they pronounce "coffin" with the open-o.  I'm
in that group, along with several others who wrote in; in fact, I
probably exhibit considerable variation in my pronunciation of
"coffin", as well as in rhotic environments ("forest", "orange"), as
also discussed here in the past.  This doesn't mean I merge "caught"
and "cot" (or "wrought" and "rot"), though.

LH

>
>The data show that 61% of Americans pronounce cot/caught
>differently.  How the merger is getting so much play in the media is
>baffling to me.  Must be a westernbroadcast export.  It is not a
>good thing.  It needlessly creates homonyms which interfere with
>clearest communications.  I hope no one is teaching that dropping
>"awe" for "ah" is a good thing.
>
>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems"
>at authorhouse.com.
>
>
>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>  Poster: Rowan McMullin
>>  Subject: Re: coffin pronunciation
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  In the midwest, most of the people I've heard (who make a distinction, that
>>  is, between /a/ and open-o) still pronounce "coffin" with an open-o. To me,
>>  pronouncing it with an /a/ sounds like an east-coast thing.
>>
>>  -Rowan
>>
>>  On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Tom Zurinskas
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>  Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>  Subject: Re: coffin pronunciation
>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  Is that your usual, Scot? Beating people. How old are you?
>>>
>>>  I would think that the pronunciation of the vowel in words with "off" in
>>>  it as "ah" is a recent phonomenon. In fact if "on" and "off" have the same
>>>  "ah" sound, it could be confusing if the second phoneme is said softly or
>>>  drops out. "Turn it ah..." could be interpreted either way.
>>>
>>>  Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>  See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at
>>>  authorhouse.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>  -----------------------
>>>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>  Poster: Scot LaFaive
>>>>  Subject: Re: coffin pronunciation
>>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>>"Coffee" has always been ~kaufee. But not anymore. The "awe-droppers"
>>>>>refuse to say the sound ~au, and are dropping it out of the American
>>>>  English>foenubet. Not good.
>>>>
>>>>  A friend of mine says [kah-fi] for "coffee." Shall I beat him
>>>  unmercifully
>>>>  until he submits to the proper pronunciation? The bastard does *refuse*
>>>  to
>>>>  say [kaw-fi].
>>>>
>>>>  Scot
>>>>
>>>>  On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>  -----------------------
>>>>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>  Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>>>  Subject: Re: coffin pronunciation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>>>
>>>>>  It's an "open o" or "backward c" or whatever other visual description
>>>  you
>>>>>  want to give the IPA symbol for the vowel sound "awe" (which in
>>>  truespel is
>>>>>  ~au). So it's ~kaufin. Always has been. The word "off" has always been
>>>>>  ~auf. "Coffee" has always been ~kaufee. But not anymore. The
>>>>>  "awe-droppers" refuse to say the sound ~au, and are dropping it out of
>>>  the
>>>>>  American English foenubet. Not good.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Data show that American folks still prefer ~au at least for "caught"
>>>>>  instead of pronouncing it "cot". But many newscaster in FL are
>>>  replacing
>>>>>  "awe" with "ah". In fact some say "cloddy" instead of "cloudy".
>>>>>
>>>>>  Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>>>  See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at
>>>>>  authorhouse.com.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>  -----------------------
>>>>>>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>>>  Poster: Matthew Gordon
>>>>>>  Subject: coffin pronunciation
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I was listening to a podcast featuring 2 thirty-something New Yorkers.
>>>>>  One
>>>>>>  of them pronounced 'coffin' with an open-o, and the other ridiculed
>>>  him,
>>>>>>  saying something about how it's not 'coughin'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  My question for those of you who maintain the distinction between /a/
>>>>>  and
>>>>>>  open-o: Do you all have /a/ for 'coffin'? I'm wondering whether this
>>>  is
>>>>>>  another example of a word that varies in its phonemic assignment.
>>>>>>
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>
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