"and" in numerical expressions

Tom Zurinskas truespel at HOTMAIL.COM
Wed May 13 02:43:40 UTC 2009


Amazingly, I must report that no one in this forum was instructed in grammar/elementary/grade/primary school how to say numbers.


Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
see truespel.com




----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:12:21 -0400
> From: JMB at STRADLEY.COM
> Subject: Re: "and" in numerical expressions
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: "Baker, John"
> Subject: Re: "and" in numerical expressions
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The Arabian Nights Entertainments are sometimes given the title
> The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night, and variations thereon.
> Perhaps there is a connection to the original Arabic.
>
> I do call the book "One Hundred One Dalmatians," which
> apparently is an indication of how strongly I am inclined to drop the
> "and." But even I say "Thousand and One Nights."
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf
> Of Arnold Zwicky
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 2:31 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: "and" in numerical expressions
>
> i've been working on a posting for Language Log on "and" in numerical
> expressions, making the point that there are contexts in which One Right
> Way is inapplicable here (that is, contexts where "and" and zero are
> both acceptable, and in fact truth-functionally equivalent). this is
> intended as posting two in the "making distinctions" series, which began
> with:
> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1416
>
> as in our previous foray into this topic, the postings here have been
> all over the map, with all sorts of numerical expressions discussed, in
> a number of different contexts, and with people reporting very different
> experiences with the variation between things like "one hundred two" and
> "one hundred two" when the expressions are used as determiners. usage
> guides seem to be silent on the question, and both variants are easily
> found in the speech of the educated and in "good writing" (when the
> numbers are written out in words).
>
> entertainingly, there are circumstances in which "and" in such
> expressions is not only acceptable, but required. the title of the
> "Arabian Nights" story collection is sometimes given as "1001 Nights",
> but as far as i know this is always read as "A Thousand and One Nights",
> never as "A Thousand One Nights", and when the digits are written out as
> words, you get an "and", as in:
>
> Stories from the Thousand and One Nights Translated by Edward William
> Lane Revised by Stanley Lane-Poole
> http://www.bartleby.com/16/
>
> in a somewhat less elevated context, there's the book "The 101
> Dalmatians" by Dodie Smith. as far as i know, the title is always read
> with "hundred and one", never with "hundred one". the sequel,
> "Starlight Barking", begins:
>
> Not long ago there lived in Suffolk a hundred and one Dalmatians
> whose adventures had once thrilled all the ... [note the "and"]
>
> the first book then got made into a animated Walt Disney version (1961),
> under the title "One Hundred and One Dalmatians" [note the "and"]. the
> imdb at
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055254/
> tells us that the movie is also known as "101 Dalmatians" (alternative
> spelling). then there was a 1996 live-action remake entitled "101
> Dalmatians" (so spelled). again, so far as i know, "101" in these
> titles is always read with the "and".
>
> there are probably more examples like these.
>
> arnold
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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