Hot news perfect question

[Joel S. Berson]

At 11/17/2009 10:32 AM, ronbutters at AOL.COM wrote:
>In my variety of American English, if one says, "I thought that X,"
>in response to someone else's assertion, the intended inference is a
>more or less polite contradiction. I think that that is what the
>"after knowing" constriction means.

That's what I wondered (read it as) initially, but the "Shakespeare
agreed" suggests that the "[Irish guard]" knew, and was making a
positive statement.

Joel

>One could also use the pluperfect, but it is not the case that the
>"after knowing" construction means the same thing as the pluperfect.
>
>Why is this called "hot news"? Doesn't seem appropriate.
>------Original Message------
>From: Gordon, Matthew J.
>Sender: ADS-L
>To: ADS-L
>ReplyTo: ADS-L
>Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Hot news perfect question
>Sent: Nov 17, 2009 10:12 AM
>
>I think that "I'm after knowing X" can mean "I've just found out X",
>but I'm no expert. Anyway this interpretation doesn't particularly
>make sense in the context you cite. Is there any reason to believe
>this is an authentic usage and not some "Mock Irish English"? After
>all, the after-perfect is a stereotype of Irish dialects along the
>lines of invariant 'be' for African American English, and the latter
>shows up all the time in grammatically inappropriate (per AAE
>grammar) contexts in made-up samples of African American usage (e.g.
>It be hot today).
>
>-Matt Gordon
>
>
>On 11/16/09 4:24 PM, "Benjamin Barrett" <gogaku at IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
>One page 355 of Harry Turtledove's _Ruled Britannia (Roc, Sept 2003),
>a novel of alternate history, he uses the form of the hot news perfect:
>
>-----
>"I'm for the Theatre," Shakespeare answered [in the morning].
>"Faith, are you indeed?" the [Irish guard] said. "Riddle my why, then.
>I'm **after knowing** these plays run of afternoons."
>"In sooth, they do," Shakespeare agreed.
>-----
>
>The Wikipedia page on Hiberno-English
>(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English#Grammar_derived_from_Irish)
>says that the hot news perfect is used as the pluperfect.
>
>Here the meaning is "To my knowledge, these plays run in the
>afternoon" or perhaps "As I have known, these plays run in the
>afternoon" which seems at odds with the Wikipedia explanation.
>
>Is there something else going on here?
>
>Benjamin Barrett
>Seattle, WA
>
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