[Ads-l] Where are the PC police?

ADSGarson O'Toole adsgarsonotoole at GMAIL.COM
Sat Sep 17 21:07:24 EDT 2016


There was a discussion thread about Chicken Little and Chicken Licken
back in 2010. I located some evidence before the important 1849
citation mentioned by Robin. There seems to be some uncertainty about
the original character names:

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2010-December/105724.html

Perhaps more material is available now.
Garson


On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 8:41 PM, Robin Hamilton
<robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote:
> I should have said, the whole point of my last post, that even in the UK, even
> in Scotland, the badge Jon refers to read "Chicken Little [sic] Was Right".
>
> Even when we knew better.
>
> Very much a sixties sort of scene, in origin at least.
>
> R.
>
>>
>>     On 18 September 2016 at 01:29 Robin Hamilton
>> <robin.hamilton3 at VIRGINMEDIA.COM> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     It's odd ... Not so much that "Chicken Licken Was Right" doesn't sound
>> right,
>>     but *why* it doesn't sound right.
>>
>>     Chicken Licken is embedded in the rhyme-cascade of Chicken Licken, Henny
>> Penny,
>>     Ducky Lucky, Goosy Loosey ... Foxy Loxy, whereas Chicken Little [sic] is
>>     detachable.
>>
>>     As to why Chicken Licken in England whereas Chicken Little in America.
>> *That* I
>>     dunno. The when but not the why.
>>
>>     Way it goes.
>>
>>     Robin
>>
>>     >
>>     > On 18 September 2016 at 00:34 Jim Parish <jparish at SIUE.EDU> wrote:
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > The Turtles released a song by that title in 1967. (It's not one of
>>     > their better songs....)
>>     >
>>     > Jim Parish
>>     >
>>     > On 9/17/2016 6:32 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>>     > > In the year 1968 I purchased, in NYC, a novelty button that read,
>>     > > "CHICKEN
>>     > > LITTLE WAS RIGHT."
>>     > >
>>     > > It has served me well ever since.
>>     > >
>>     > > On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Robin Hamilton <
>>     > > robin.hamilton3 at virginmedia.com> wrote:
>>     > >
>>     > >> It's worse than that, even, Wilson, since there's a degree of
>>     > >> gender-bending
>>     > >> involved in making the protagonist male:
>>     > >>
>>     > >> I quote myself from some long-ago notes:
>>     > >>
>>     > >> << The second version of the narrative to be written down [the
>>     > >> earliest
>>     > >> version is Scots, and begins with a hen], with the initial figure now
>>     > >> a
>>     > >> younger
>>     > >> barnyard fowl named Chicken Licken, was that of James Orchard
>>     > >> Halliwell-Philips
>>     > >> (as he was finally known by the end of his life), Shakespearean
>>     > >> scholar,
>>     > >> and
>>     > >> anthologist of nursery rhymes and folk tales. Halliwell-Philips
>>     > >> introduces
>>     > >> Chicken Licken in his 1849 anthology. It is here for the first time
>>     > >> that
>>     > >> the
>>     > >> protagonist is named Chicken Licken, while it is now an acorn [not a
>>     > >> pea,
>>     > >> as in
>>     > >> the earlier Scottish version] which falls on the creature’s head:
>>     > >>
>>     > >> “As Chicken-Licken went one day to the wood, an acorn fell upon her
>>     > >> poor
>>     > >> bald
>>     > >> pate, and she thought the sky had fallen. So she said she would go
>>     > >> and
>>     > >> tell the
>>     > >> king that the sky had fallen …”
>>     > >>
>>     > >> This was the version which was to dominate the British strand of the
>>     > >> tale. >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >> Or so I once seem to have averred.
>>     > >>
>>     > >> As to why she's called Chicken Little in America ... well, children,
>>     > >> that's
>>     > >> another story.
>>     > >>
>>     > >> Robin Hamilton
>>     > >>
>>     > >>
>>     > >>> On 17 September 2016 at 20:44 Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>     > >>>
>>     > >>>
>>     > >>> Chicken Little (2005) - IMDb
>>     > >>> www.imdb.com/title/tt0371606/
>>     > >>> IMDb
>>     > >>> Rating: 5.8/10 - ‎64,469 votes
>>     > >>> Animation · After ruining _his_ reputation with the town, a
>>     > >> courageous
>>     > >>> _chicken_ must come to the rescue of _his_ fellow citizens when
>>     > >> aliens
>>     > >>> start an invasion.
>>     > >>>
>>     > >>>
>>     > >>> When did chickens - not to mention honeybees, wasps, hornets, cows,
>>     > >> etc. -
>>     > >>> become *male*? No less a light than Seth MacFarlane has even
>>     > >> portrayed
>>     > >>> bulls as having udders.
>>     > >>>
>>     > >>> Is it becoming the case that, in English, _male_ v. _female_ is
>>     > >> relevant
>>     > >>> only WRT personkind?
>>     > >>>
>>     > >>> --
>>     > >>> -Wilson
>>     > >>> -----
>>     > >>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die!"---a strange complaint
>>     > >> to
>>     > >>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>     > >>> -Mark Twain
>>     > >>>
>>     > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     > >>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>     > >>>
>>     > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>     > >>
>>     > >
>>     > >
>>     >
>>     > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>     >
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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