[gothic-l] Re: Names of Heruls-Goffart-J.Svennung.

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >    Einar, Hæ.
> >
> >> Troels mentioned in his letter no. 5125 yesterday the very 
specific
> >> information in Book VI, xv, 6-15.
> >
> >
> >  Einar; I am sure that this above mentioned info.(midnight-sun 
etc)
> >is from
> >Book III,History of the wars, VI.xv (from about 6-15). I just have
> >copies but I am almost sure of this.
> 
> 
> Einar,
> in VI.XV.8-13 it says
> And although I was eager to go to this island and become an 
eyewitness of
> the things I have told, no opportunity ever presented itself. 




Somehow I doubt that he ever really sought to go to Thule. As far as I 
know it was not a place were Byzantine Greeks travelled to regularly, 
and he must have known that an opportunity would never present itself 
under normal circumstances unless he would mount a full scale 
expedition. His comment is similar to somebody today saying that he 
always wanted to go to the moon, but no opportunity presented itself. 
I read this as a rethoric tool to increase the credibility of his 
report.







>However, I
> made enquiry from those who come to us from the island as to how in 
the
> world they are  able to reckon the length of the days, since the sun 
never
> sets there at the appointed times. 



Maybe he did make enquiries with traders from Thule. However, in other 
 places he also vouches that information that he provides is true and 
his sources were trustworthy even when we know that they are not. 






>And they gave me an account which 
>is
> true and trustworthy. 


Yes, that is what he also wrote when the data was clearly and 
knowingly wrong, like 100,000 Franks or 100,000 Anglians in 400 
ships...



>For they said that the sun during those forty 
days
> does not indeed set just as has been stated, but is visible to the 
people
> there at one time toward the east, and again toward the west. 
Whenever,
> therefore,on its return,it reaches the same place on the horizon 
where they
> had previously been accustomed to see it rise, they reckon in this 
way that
> one day and night have passed. When, however, the time of the nights
> arrives, they always take note of the courses of the moon and stars 
and
> thus reckon the measure of the days....
> 



Jordanes account of the mid-night sun (see below) reads very 
similarly. 

Jordanes, Getica (19) "...Now in the island of Scandza, whereof I 
speak, there dwell many and divers nations, though Ptolemaeus mentions 
the names of but seven of them. There the honey-making swarms of bees 
are nowhere to be found on account of the exceeding great cold. In the 
northern part of the island the race of the Adogit live, who are said 
to have continual light in midsummer for forty days and nights, and 
who likewise have no clear light in the winter season for the same 
number of days and nights. (20) By reason of this alternation of 
sorrow and joy they are like no other race in their sufferings and 
blessings. And why? Because during the longer days they see the sun 
returning to the east along the rim of the horizon, but on the shorter 
days it is not thus seen. The sun shows itself differently because it 
is passing through the southern signs, and whereas to us the sun seem 
to rise from below, it seems to go around them along the edge of the 
earth."


Both knew the length of 40 days and nights. Both described the sun 
passing along the horizon. And both will likely have used the same 
ancient geographical source. Perhaps Procopius really did speak to 
somebody who had figured out how to measure the length of the day 
in this circumstances, or who even came from there; impossible to say 
given the bias that he displayed in other comments. 


cheers,
Dirk










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