[gothic-l] Re: Ostrogothic Dress

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., Tore Gannholm <tore.gannholm at s...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Soeren on the Germanic list is very knowledgeable regarding ships 
and
> >he explained that their is no evidence that sails have been used in
> >the 6th century on the Baltic Sea (including the coast outside
> >Vaestergoetland). Perhaps on freight ships, but even that is
> >speculation.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>  Some of the large "skeppssättningar" stoneships must have used
> >sails
> >>  or rather their originals.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Well, as you imply these are outlines of ships made with stones.
> >Nothing can be derived about the possible means of locomotion of 
the
> >real boats from that.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>  They date to 8th-5th century BC
> >>
> >
> >
> >I think at this early time it is resonably safe to dismiss the use 
of
> >sails on the Baltic Sea (including the coast outside 
Vaestergoetland).
> >
> >I really wonder, why you feel it necessary to attack my argument, 
but
> >find nothing wrong with Ingemar's proposition that the established
> >dating of this rune stone should be changed, because the rider on 
the
> >stone wears what (with some imagination) might be seen as a 
Phrygian
> >cap, which might have been worn by Goths in Italy. Could it be
> >because Ingemar's proposition fits your theories, why mine doesn't?
> >
> >Dirk
> >
> 
> Dirk,
> I did not comment on the runestone as I have no argument. There are 
> so many interpretations that I have no opinion.
> 
> On the other hand about early Baltic Sea relations I know quite a 
lot 
> and learn more every day.
> 
> That we have not found any physical sailing ship wrecks from the 
6th 
> century is no argument that they did not sail in the Baltic in the 
> 6th century.
> 
> If we have fully developed sailing ships on our picture stones from 
> the 7th century there must have been a development over some time.
> 
> Tore
> --


Tore,

I have no problem with that, but I only wanted to point out that the 
depiction of such a sailing boat on this particular rune stone does 
support the dating to the 9th century rather than creating an 
oherwise unheard of precedence for a depiction of such a ship 200 
years earlier. This should be reasonable, especially if the grounds 
on which to re-date the stone to the early 6th century is based on a 
supposedly Phrygian cap of the horseman on the stone. 

Dirk


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