[gothic-l] Two Peoples

[Oskar Andersson]

Hi,

> Andreas,
> 
> Thank you for the detailed and interesting account.
> It reminded me of A.M.'s background, which I have
> quoted in contributions on the reason for the down-
> fall of the Roman empire in the west.
> 
> If Alarich I is regarded as the first Visigothic king
> that leaves, in my opinion, only Athanrich and Fridigern,
> which could be regarded as leading a part of the
> Gothic people.
> 
> Then we have to ask. Did they really lead the whole
> Gothic people 366 to 395 AD or were they leaders
> of the Visigoths.

They did not "lead the whole Gothic people´," but large 
groups of it.

> I think Professor Lars Hermodsson is correct when
> he wrote in his introduction to Gothic history that
> emperor Valens gave the Visigoths permission to cross 
> the Danube.

As far as I know he gave the Tervingi Goths admission into the Empire, but refused the Greuthungi, 
and he sent forces to keep them at bay. The Greuthungi, however forced their way and 
joined forces with Tervingi - resulting in some pillaging and Hadrianople in 378.

I agree completely with him and the Visogoths
> subsequently were those who defeated Valens at
> present time Edirne in 378 AD.

These were both Tervingi and Greuthungi as far as I know. The basical tribal components that 
later went to Italy, Gaul and Spain. But I consider labelling them Visigoths that early as 
anachronistic - I am not sure to which extent they had merged into "one" tribe. Moreover it might 
be downright wrong to assume this label prior to them entering Italy under Alaric. Or Gaul under 
Theoderic I, as Andreas Schwarz tells.

Hermodsson goes further
> back, even to the 3rd Century AD referring to Visigoths 
> already in 275 AD. The names differ, Visigoths, Ostrogoths,
> Tervingi and Greutingi. The latter were earlier designations
> that did not fit into the later migrations. They may have
> referred to "forest inhabitants" and "inhabitants of sandy or
> rocky ground".
> 
> Gothically
> 
> Bertil

Best,
Oskar



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