[gothic-l] Re: the Thuringians

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "Andreas Schwarcz" <andreas.schwarcz at u...> 
wrote:
> Dear Dirk,
> generally I agree with your synthesis of Gothic-Thuringian 
relations, but not with the 
> relative chronology of the marriage between Herminafred and 
Amalaberga and the 
> destruction of the Herulic kingdom and the datation of both events. 
As I showed in my 
> essay
> 
> Der Nordadria- und Westbalkanraum im 6. Jahrhundert zwischen Goten 
und 
> Byzantinern. In: Slowenien und die Nachbarländer zwischen Antike 
und Karolingischer 
> Epoche, ed. Rajko Bratoz. 2 vols., Ljubljana 2000, vol.1, pp.59-70, 
esp.pp.65.f.,
> 


Dear Andreas,

I shall try to get your article. Thanks for the reference! ....


> a close analysis of Cassiodorus, Variae. IV, 1-3, enables us to put 
the marriage and an 
> embassy to the king of the Heruli with rich gifts before September 
Ist, 509, when 
> Theodoric's envoy Senarius was promoted to the post of Comes 
patrimonii. Both 
> embassies and the Thuringian marriage must be put into the context 
of Theodoric's 
> war with the Franks, the Burgundians and Byzantium on behalf of the 
Visigoths and his 
> diplomatic efforts to secure support for his counterattack over the 
Alps into Gaul in 508 
> and be dated accordingly to 508. 



Ok, that means that the rise in the importance of the Thuringians in 
the alliance system of Theoderic was not the result of the defeat of 
the Heruls. Instead, Theoderic seemed to have persued a policy of 
building alliances with various peoples north of the Alps in 
parallel. 





The defeat of the Heruli preceded Theodoric's peace 
> with the emperor Anastasius in 510 and must be dated into the 
second half of 509.


So north of the Alps, Theoderic exercised some form of protectorate 
over parts of the Alamanni and probably over the (emerging) Bajuvari. 
Hence, those peoples stood in something of a dependent relationship 
to the Ostrogoths in Italy. Theoderic also had alliances with the 
Herulic kingdom in Moravia and the Thuringian kingdom in middle 
Germany. While those two kingdoms were more assertive than the 
Alamanni and Bajuvari at the time, they also were still subordinate 
to the Ostrogothic kingdom. What is known about the relationship 
between Ostrogoths and Langobards? After desruction of the Herulic 
kingdom the Langobards were in the most significant strategic 
position. Yet, as far as I know, no direct diplomatic efforts were 
made by the Ostrogoths targeted at the Langobards. Was the 
Ostrogothic-Herulic alliance which ended with the defeat of the 
Heruls in 509 still causing hostility between Langobards and 
Ostrogoths afterwards? Where the Langobards too strong and assertive 
after 509AD?

best regards
Dirk 


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