[gothic-l] Re: Re; Jutes and Goths

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Sunny" <sunnyjat12002 at y...> wrote:
>  Hi Dirk,
>
> Your point about Shore's book is taken, but I believe one should
not
> throw the baby out with the bath water.
>
> I can understand your belief about Goths and Getae, but why not
> connection between Goths and Jutes?  They are virtually adjacent to
> each other.




They are??? The Goths/Gothi lived at the Black Sea, some 3000 km away
from Jutland, where the Jutes lived. The forefathers of the Goths,
the Gotones and Gythones lived at the middle Vistula, still some 1000
km away from Jutland. You have to separate a few groups first. The
Jutes, which were called Eucci/Eutti in earliest sources lived on
Jutland, the Goutai (Ptolemy) lived somewhere in Scandinavia and the
Gotones (Tacitus) and Gythones (Ptolemy) lived somewhere at the
middle Vistula.






>
> A few comments:
>
> "That is of course wrong again. As Francisc has explained at
length,
> Getae have nothing to do with Germanic tribes like Goti or Jutae.
> Also the apparent similarity between Jutae and Gutae is a fallacy.
> The name Jutae is in its earliest forms rendered as Eucci,
Euthiones,
> Eotas, etc."
>
> Why can't the Jutes, be a palatalization Gutes or Gutae?



I am not a linguist, but since the earliest name form of the later
Jutes is Eucci/Eutti etc. it is apparently believed that the name
derives from an entirely different stem. According to the
RGA 'Jueten' one theory argues that the name goes back to *euta,
*eutjoz and *eutjaniz and refers to a meaning of 'Land, Soil'.

We should not just throw people together just because their names
seem to sound somewhat similar. Ancient historical sources don't link
these people, so why should we? Note that there lived a people the
Venedi at the south Baltic coast, in northern Italy and in western
France. Yet, neither group had anything to do with the other. Name
similarities are a treacherous path without historical sources to
guide us.





Also, isn't
> Latin "I" followed by another vowel, the same sound as Anglo-
> Saxon "J"?  So, could the Iotas and Iuthiones be Jotas, and
Juthiones?
>
> "In short, try to get access to a modern book on Germanic peoples.
A
> lot has happened since 1670, 1906 and the present time."
>
> Suggestions?; in Latin or English please.
>


Any Latin source will be several centuries too old to give you an
inside into modern historical research. The best and most detailed
works are in German I suppose (e.g. the Reallexikon der Germanischen
Altertumskunde in some 20 volumes). Yet, there are some good English
overviews as well. You could for example look at Malcom Todd's 'The
Early Germans'.

Cheers
Dirk






> Regards,


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