[gothic-l] Re: word question

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at o...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Dirk,
> 
> I don't know.  I only have more questions!  Like: was the Latin 
> inscription made at the same time as the Gothic one, by the same 
> person, or later?  There used to be a picture of it somewhere, 
maybe 
> at the University of Kiel Gotisch-Projekte site (Skeireins Projekt 
+ 
> Gotica minora), but the links don't seem to be working these days:
> 
> http://www.germsem.uni-kiel.de/forschung/forschung.htm
> 
> Which is a shame.  Does anyone know what became of them?  Has 
anyone 
> got a copy of the Brunshausen page?  There is an artcle:
> 
> Düwel, Klaus. "Gotisches in Brunshausen?" In Wentilseo: I Germani 
> sulle sponde del Mare Nostrum: Atti del Convegno Internazionale di 
> Studi Padova, 13–15 ottobre 1999, ed. Alessandro Zironi, 119–48. 
> Studi e testi di linguistica e filologia germanica 6. Padova: 
> Unipress, 2001. [132–44: Stone fragment from Brunshausen with roman 
> inscription containing a word that has been interpreted as RUNICA.]
> 
> But I haven't seen it.
> 
> The other evidence for awareness of the Gothic alphabet at this 
time 
> is the Codex Segonensis (=Codex Parisina) -- also discussed at that 
> now mysteriously missing University of Kiel site -- a Carolingian 
> manuscript listing the Latin and Gothic equivalents of several 
> biblical names (in some cases showing slight differences from the 
> texts that survive of the Gothic bible), and a selection of 
> individual letters with their Latin equivalents, suggesting perhaps 
> that whoever made the original list had access not just to Gothic 
> manuscripts, but to people who knew how to pronounce them -- unless 
> these are just guesses made by comparison of the biblical names, 
and 
> the Latin & Greek scripts.
> 
> Do you know anything about a decree to destroy Gothic manuscripts 
in 
> Spain some time in the early 11th century?  I just have a vague 
> memory of reading something like that ages ago, but I haven't been 
> able to find a reference.



Hi,

I have never heard of such a decree. To be honest, I strongly doubt 
that the Visigoths in Spain produced anything written in Gothic. 





> 
> I think someone once suggested that the preservation of legends 
> connected with Dietrich (of Bern) in Germany was due to migrants 
> escaping the downfall of Ostrogothic Italy, but who knows.
> 



It is certainly possible that some Goths chose to accompany their 
allys the Alamanns when they returned to southern Germany. Similarly, 
Ostrogothic rule extended accross the Alps, possibly as far as 
Regensburg, opening the possibility that some Italian Goths sought 
refuge in those regions after the fall of their kingdom - but I don't 
think that there is any tangible evidence for this. 

Instead, there is considerable evidence for trade between Ostrogothic 
Italy and parts of South Germany. Thus, small (non-gold) Ostrogothic 
coins have been found in considerable numbers in Alamannic (i.e. 
Mengen) and Bavarian graves, and in single finds along the Rhine. 
Such small-change was only used in direct, close-contact trade and 
not in far-distance trade. 

Finally, we know that the Thuringian kingdom in Germany was strongly 
oriented towards the Ostrogoths, including high level marriages 
between Thuringian and Gothic royal families. In theory (again very 
speculative) this could have resulted in the movement of some 
Ostrogoths to the areas of the Thuringian kingdom which however, was 
destroyed by the Franks in around 534. Curiously, one branch of the 
Saxon Billung dynasty, called the Thuringian Billungs, were also 
called the Amalungs or Amalings in the 8th century, and the PN 
Amalung remained a lead-name in this family right into the 11th 
century. Given the evidence of more than one high level marriage of 
members of the Amal dynasty to Thuringia (princely Gothic graves of 
Grossoerner, Stoessen, Erfurt) it is not impossible that one powerful 
local family preserved a memory of a relationship with the 
prestigious Amals. Again, just a thought - there is no evidence that 
they had anything to do with Goths appart from an admiration of the 
stories about Amal kings. 

Cheers
Dirk






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