Arain Christian influence on Islam

[ualarauans]

Hailai,

How would you explain the fragment Skeir. 7:7

akei nauh us þamma filu mais siponjans fullafahida jah anþarans 
gamaudida gaumjan, þatei is was sa sama, saei in auþidai •m• jere 
attans ize fodida...

"but much more from this (five loaves and two fishes) he (Jesus) had 
satisfied the disciples and reminded the others to see that he was 
THE SAME WHO FED THEIR FATHERS IN THE DESERT FOUR HUNDRED YEARS".

As you see Jesus is literally identified with God Father. Is this 
view really Arian? If not, how did it get here?

Ualarauans

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wolfgang Franz" <wolfgang.franz at ...>
To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Re: Arain Christian influence on Islam


I think it can't be emphazised often enough: Arius did not deny the 
divinity
of the Christ. For Arius Christ was created before creation but in 
time. But
the Christ (the logos) was created. And this is the difference to 
the rest
of
christianity: That He was created while in the creed of Nicaia He is
procreated. In Arius' opinion the logos was god second class but god
nevertheless.

What you describe is adoptianism, condemned always when it came 
around in
the
early church. In the course of the bitter struggle about the trinity 
after
the council of Nicaia some radical arianists (Aetius) became 
adoptianists as
well. But the original Arius was not.

Wulfila was even more towards the orthodox nicaian church. It looks 
that he
was arian by accident only. When he was consecrated bishop arianism 
was the
leading party in the east. And afterwards Wulfila was too 
straightforward to
change his mind.

Am Samstag, 31. März 2007 07:00 schrieb Le Bateman:
>   I am just thinking about the similarity in the belief Jesus was 
born of
> a
> virgin, but not divine. This was the teaching of Arius. All of the 
Church
> fathers including Ireneus, who was the disciple of Polycarp, who 
is said
> to
> be John The Beloved Disciple. All of them taught that Arianism was 
a
> heretical sect.  Muhammad lived in the 6th Century, and died at 
the time
> that Redwald King of East Anglia died in 632 A.D. So he would have
> encountered the Monks who live in the Sinai.
> They have a monastery on Mount Sinia. Or somewhere on the Sinai or 
Arabian
> Peninsula. I am thinking of the Greek Orthodox monks. I also 
believe the
> Coptic Christians of Egypt were around as well. So they were 
around. It is
> possible he did come incontact with him. The Quran does call these 
and the
> Jews Unbelievers. So he was aware of them. I will have to reread 
the
> Quran.
> Le
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Baira" <baira_bear at ...>
> To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:07 AM
> Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Arain Christian influence on Islam
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Le Bateman" <LeBateman at ...> 
wrote:
> >   Does anyone know if there was a strong Arian influence on 
Islam.
>
> They both
>
> > seemed to view Jesus as important, but not devine as the Orthodox
>
> faith.
>
> > Could Mohammed have known the followers of Ulfius.I probably 
have the
> > Bishop's name spelled wrong.
> > Le
>
> It is very, very doubtful. Many historians of the Islamic religion
> believe that Mohammad was personally acquainted with the Jewish
> religion but not with the Christian one, which he knew just by
> hearsay. If so, it was highly unlikely that he knew the beliefs of 
a
> 'heretical' sect.
>
> In Islamic religion Jesus is a prophet, just like Moses and 
Abraham.
> The greatest of the prophets before Mohammed, but a prophet, 
nothing
> more and nothing less.
>
> Besides, if you are not a Christian you will not only never accept 
the
> divine nature of Jesus, but you will not even pose yourself the 
question.

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