century, events, deaths

Sun Feb 24 11:58:05 UTC 2008

3rd try:

1st fruma

2nd anþar

3rd þridja

4th fidworda

5th fimfta

6th saihsta

7th sibunda

8th ahtuda

9th niunda

10th taihunda

11th ainlifta

12th twalifta

13th þridjataihunda

14th fidwordataihunda

15th fimftataihunda

16th saihstataihunda

17th sibundataihunda

18th ahtudataihunda

19th niundataihunda

20th twai tiguda

21st twai tiguda jah fruma

22nd twai tiguda jah anþar

23rd twai tiguda jah þridja

24th twai tiguda jah fidworda

25th twai tiguda jah fimfta

26th twai tiguda jah saihsta

27th twai tiguda jah sibunda

28th twai tiguda jah ahtuda

29th twai tiguda jah niunda

30th þrei tiguda (þrija tiguda? like *þrijataihun?)

31st þrei tiguda jah fruma

40th fidworda tiguda

50th fimfta tiguda

60th saihsta tiguda

70th sibuntehundosta

80th ahtautehundosta

90th niuntehundosta

100th hundosta

200th twai hundosta

300th þrei hundosta

400th fidworda hundosta

500th fimfta hundosta

600th saihsta hundosta

700th sibunda hundosta

800th ahtuda hundosta

900th niunda hundosta

1000th þusundosta

2000th twai þusundosta

----- Original Message ----- 

  From: llama_nom 
  To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:19 PM
  Subject: [gothic-l] Re: century, events, deaths

  --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans at ...> wrote:
  >
  > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
  > > 
  > > Old English turns the -tig of the cardinal decades into -tigoþa for
  > > the ordinals: twéntigoþa, þrittigoþa, féowertigoþa, fíftigoþa, ...,
  > > hundtéontiogoþa. When combined with a unit, either the decade or 
  > the
  > > unit, there are two possibilities: twá and twenigoþa; óþer éac
  > > twentigum. Old High German has: zweinzugôsto, drîzugôsto, ...,
  > > zehanzugôsto. Units are added without a conjunction: niunzugôsto
  > > fiordo. Old Norse adds the suffix -andi: tuttugandi, þrítugandi,
  > > fertugandi, fimmtugandi, ... The ordinals of 100 and 1000 aren't
  > > recorded in Old Norse, but Modern Icelandic has: hundraðasti,
  > > þúsundasti. It turns both decades and units into ordinals and 
  > places
  > > them either way round: tuttugandi ok fyrstr, fyrstr ok tuttugandi.
  > > 
  > > Which gives us a few possibilities for Gothic. Maybe we should 
  > avoid
  > > working backwards from Old Norse -gandi on the assumption that this
  > > could be a later form created by analogy with the teens. -da is
  > > attested as an ordinal suffix in Gothic, so we could reconstruct
  > > *-tiguþa (with devoicing of /d/ to /þ/ according to the usual rule 
  > of
  > > dissimilation), or possibly *-tiguda (with restoration of /d/ by
  > > analogy). Or, on the basis of Old High German, we could reconstruct
  > > *-tugosta.
  > > 
  > > *twai-tiguþa
  > > *twai-tigosta
  > 
  > OE twén- and OHG zwein- seem to suggest some weird form of "two". 
  > Maybe, Go. *twaina-? Or *twi- like in ON? And why the geminated -tt- 
  > (tuttugu)? Couldn't it be in Gothic (*twittigosta)?

  The gemination in Old Norse *could* come from the loss of a nasal
  preceding the -t-. I'm not sure if it does in this case though. Maybe
  I was too hasty to dismiss the possibility of -anda- in Gothic?
  According to the OED, "the first element [of English 'twenty'] is
  variously explained as a nom. plur. (OE. twégen) and as a dative
  form." More specifically the regular masculine nominative plural, OE
  twégen, bégen = Go. twai, bai. If it is a nominative plural, then
  presumably we want Gothic twai-. I hadn't though of dative till now,
  but that would give us twaim-tiguþa, or twaim-tigosta, etc. and
  þrim-tiguþa, etc. after which the units stop being marked for case and
  we can relax! (Compare Old Norse compounds like hugum-stórr) But
  against this theory is the fact that there's no sign of a dative
  ending in thirty. But then, since twai- would be transparently
  nominative in Gothic, presumably it would change case according to
  context. Using the prefic twi- is tempting, and would also remove a
  lot of our dilemmas. And it is attested elsewhere in Gothic.

  > What about "three" in "thirty"? *þreitigosta (like OHG) or 
  > *þrittigoda (like OE)?

  The gemination in OE (and shortening of the vowel) is a later
  development. Earlier OE has þrítig.

  > Looks like there was no pan-Germanic archetyp for ordinals over 19, 
  > right?

  Right. Hence the racking of our poor brains!

  > 
  > > Alternatively it might be better to dodge the issue of suffixes and
  > > reconstructions and just assume that the word for decade remained a
  > > noun still in Gothic, as with ordinals: anþar tigus, þridja 
  > tigus, ...
  > > etc. Compare the Old Norse idiom: hálfr þriði tøgr manna "25 men"
  > > (literally "half [of] the third decade of men); hálft annat hundrat
  > > "150" (literally "half [of] the second hundred).
  > 
  > In which case we'd say sa aiws twaddje tigiwe hunde aþne usliþanaize 
  > fram X''au gabauranamma? Reminds me of the speech of the Maya shaman 
  > in Apocalypto :) The year 2008 - þata anþarþûsundjosto jah ahtudo 
  > jer aldais X''aus? Or, alternatively, "twos þûsundjos jere jah nauh 
  > ahtau usliþana waurþun und hita fram jainai naht in Nazaraiþ, 
  > jah ... (you tell what happens in 2008)" :)

  That Icelandic idiom also ties in with the way Icelandic and German
  anticipate the next hour in giving clock times, unlike
  backwards-looking English: hálfníu = halb neun = half eight. I wonder
  how many working hours have been lost due to that little quirk, or
  duellists lives saved ;-)

  LN

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