traditions of assimilation...

Tue Feb 26 20:21:00 UTC 2008

   Is it true that Mormans believe we natives are the lost children of
Israel and if we are converted to mormanism,  It elevates the converter to a
more special or higer                                place in heaven? Also
will the converter be placed higher than the lost child.  If so I think it
is a selfish practice that needs to be abandoned, to look at someone elses
beliefs as less than your own is selfish, especially if it is thought to
elevate oneself in Creator's eyes. Wow! This discussion is pertinent to this
site because I do believe if it were not for religion we would not be
scrambling to help our languages flourish. 

 When an oppressive religion takes over,  native languages become
fragmented, once converted to an oppressors language or religion,  what once
was a part of the native language becomes set aside, thought of as evil, not
passed on, something to fear, what makes a language beautiful and special is
its deep conection to its own unique way of describing its beliefs about its
own culture its own world view its own spirituality. 

 Language is the paint creator gave to our soul to depict the world around
us, and if another thinks I may need more colors on my pallet I would say he
must be color blind, creator gave me all the paint I need, we call it
nslxcin.

xwistsmxikn

Ted Moomaw

-----Original Message-----
From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Susan Penfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:44 AM
To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...

Richard,

Thank you for your well stated comments. Hopefully, we all stand by those

who are abused. I have enjoyed much of this thread and found the varying

opinions important to be aware of since this is a sensitive issue.

I do want to add that, not unlike the Mormons you mentioned,

Dr. Dirk Elzinga has dedicated much of his professional life to Indigenous 

communities and has accomplished a great deal for Indigenous languages. 

The community members I know who have worked with him have the highest 

regard for the care and professionalism he consistently demonstrates and are

appreciative of the fact that he does not push his religion at them.

I do not support the policies of many Christian churches, and other
religiions as

well, which condon and contribute to the opression of Indigenous people and
which, in turn, 

thus contribute heavily to language decline. -- much of this is still going
on worldwide and we should all 

be open to discussions that raise awareness about this issue.

All of this points to the complexities  and hard work demanded of language
revitalization -- all the way from 

the real daily work of language teaching, to the more complicated and deeply
ingrained conflicting 

ideologies which drive or detract from these efforts.

Susan

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Richard Smith <rzs at wildblue.net> wrote:

Hi Mia,
thanks for the comments and for your view on these things.
Its not easy but i've been trying my hardest to NOT see things as "good and
bad" but trying to understand what happens when different ideologies and
different beliefs strike sparks against one another.

I've seen "ugly" there on the Navajo Rez too, and in Bluff and Blanding.
But i've also known Mormons like Bruce McGee who
grew up around Pinion and Keams Canyon, his father fluent in Navajo
as a trader. Bruce( a bishop) has dedicated his life to helping Native
Artists get recognition to make a living as artists and he works now at the
Heard Museum in Phoenix. Also Leroy Garcia (a bishop) of Santa Fe who
own and operate Blue Rain Gallery, who spends his life promoting
us artists sparing no expense and always celebrating native cultures.

So i'm choosing to view the "sparks" that fly ...carefully
But I WILL stand alongside people I see being abused.
I've had to do a little "calm mediation" between strangers when i see
women being mistreated by "boyfriends"....several times.
My experience is  that a calm-strong stand by a womans side can unnerve
a verbal abuser , allowing him to hear how foolish he sounds
when he is  "the sound of only one voice yelling"

Calm can do amazing things in volatile situations
(actually I was calmly prepared to kick out the guys knee)
When we look into paths of rebuilding,rekindling....and revitalization,
we can choose to look at a ruin as a sad wreck or a monument.

But whatever, rebuilding is still hard work!

Richard Zane Smith
Wyandotte, Oklahoma

On 2/25/08 2:51 PM, "Mia Kalish" <MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US> wrote:

> Wow. Have we posted a count lately on how many versions of the bible we
have
> written in different languages?
> Have we counted how many Hawaiians and Polynesians - and American Indians
> for that matter - died because missionaries had entirely the wrong idea
> about clothing, associating it with some constructed view of morality
rather
> than the need to maintain a comfortable and safe body temperature?
> Have we counted how many people, especially women, have been made to feel
> "less than" because they had a child out of wedlock, or because they
didn't
> want to dominated by their husbands?
> Religion has always, always, always contributed to social and linguistic
> hegemony, whether people - Dr?/Mr? Elzinga included - want to admit it.
> And speaking specifically of Mormons? I am here on Navajo, and I can't
count
> the number of people who don't know who they are socially, culturally,
> historically and linguistically because they were taken away as children
and
> placed - Specifically - in Mormon homes.
> And I might add, from personal experience, these are some of the nastiest
> and cruelest people I have ever met. Is it a function of Mormon - where I
> have been told educated MEN have the most power, especially over women (so
> you can guess how I think and feel about that!) - I don't know. I think it
> is a matter of proselytizing justifying its behaviors to the hurt of
others.
>
> So Dirk Mr/Dr Elzinga, I am sure there are a lot of lists where people
talk
> about how great the idea of changing language and culture by immersion of
> white religious ideas into the bibles was and still is. But they aren't
this
> one.
> By the way, I'm Jewish, and my idea of Christ doesn't even come close to
> what the white mythics constructed in the name of power, destruction and
> often just pure meanness.

> Mia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
[mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]

> On Behalf Of Dirk Elzinga
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:05 AM
> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...
>

> Oh, for Pete's sake.
>
> I signed on to this list to listen to, and engage in discussion about
> indigenous languages and techonology (that is the list name, after
> all). A discussion of my religious beliefs (I am a member of the
> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the religion whose name
> you seem to be stepping around) isn't appropriate in this context,
> nor does it contribute to the list's purpose. There are any number of
> Mormon-bashing blogs and websites you can visit if that's your thing.
>
> Dirk Elzinga
> --
> Department of Linguistics and English Language
> Brigham Young University
> 4043 JFSB
> Provo, UT  84602
> 801.422.2117
> Dirk_Elzinga at byu.edu
>
> On Feb 16, 2008, at 10:29 AM, MJ Hardman wrote:
>
>> "Assimilation" is a mild way to say it.  And as to Republican
>> candidates --
>> the drop-out -- that religion does indeed hold as a dogma that the
>> US was
>> founded in order for the true church to be reestablished & thus,
>> yes, the US
>> belongs to white people, who have come to bring the Native
>> Americans back
>> into the fold, after they transgressed (explained in one of their
>> sacred
>> books) and thus were made dark -- the fold of the white folks, of
>> course.
>> The Native Americans aren't as dark as blacks, whose transgression was
>> worse, being descendants of Cain, though they have now been
>> forgiven and can
>> be brought into the fold.  Since Native Americans are all from the
>> lost
>> tribes of Israel, they have been rapidly welcomed into the fold,
>> including
>> by adoptions whenever possible.
>>
>> And if what I wrote above sounds psychotic -- well, Mia, it's what
>> they do
>> indeed believe.  They soft-pedal a lot of it for outsiders, they
>> are *very*
>> concerned about 'image' -- they are, after all, selling a
>> religion.  It was
>> scary.  And what scares me now is the vice-presidency.
>>
>> MJ
>>
>> On 2/14/08 3:08 PM, "Mia Kalish" <MiaKalish at LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There IS a tradition of "assimilation," usually no matter what it
>>> takes to
>>> get there. There was a story . . . Carolyn, Harrington's ex-wife,
>>> found
>>> papers in California that demonstrated the Indians were being
>>> "baptized" by
>>> 1st, clubbing them over the head until they were senseless and
>>> couldn't
>>> protest, and 2nd, being carried to the baptismal ceremony by their
>>> guards,
>>> who also functioned as the witnesses or whatever they call them.
>>> The whole purpose of the boarding schools was to take children
>>> away from the
>>> influence of their families and cultures so they would grow up
>>> "white."
>>> I think the fact that they wrote this is very Freudian: People are
>>> admitting, albeit subconsciously, that they are deliberately
>>> interfering
>>> with the lives of others.
>>>
>>> I heard a speech the other day by one of those Republicans who
>>> dropped out
>>> of the presidential race, and he actually seemed to believe that this
>>> country "belongs" to white people. He had no understanding or
>>> recognition of
>>> the fact that colonizers engaged in active and sustained genocide
>>> to kill
>>> the people who were living here originally. And by the way, he had
>>> all these
>>> statistics of the number of "out of wedlock" births by people of
>>> color.
>>> Implicit in this is the cultural moré that womens' only function
>>> in life is
>>> to take care of men. (NOT.)

>>>
>>> Mia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology
>>> [mailto:ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]

>>> On Behalf Of Richard Smith
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:40 PM
>>> To: ILAT at LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...
>>>

>>> yeah,
>>> did you catch that....?   "a Tradition of Assimilation"
>>> wow...amazing... we have traditionalists in office!
>>> By the way...who's "tradition of assimilation?"
>>>
>>> richard zane smith
>>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/11/08 8:55 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Momentum Building for Oklahoma Official English Bill
>>>>
>>> http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104
<http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/>
&STORY=/www/
>>> story/02-11
>>> -2
>>>> 008/0004753576&EDATE=
>>>>
>>>> ~~~
>>>>
>>>> While there seems to be  respect for Native American languages,
>>>> these are
>>> the
>>>> words of legislators behind the English-only bill in the Oklahoma
>>>> state
>>>> legislature:
>>>>
>>>> "...maintain a tradition of assimilation through our
>>>> common language of English."
>>>>
>>>> It seems hard to reconcile this position with Native American
>>>> language
>>>> preservation.  Though I imagine the architects of such
>>>> legislation view NA
>>>> languages as "preservation at a distance".
>>>>
>>>> l8ter,
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>> UofA
>>>
>>

-- 
____________________________________________________________
Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.

Department of English (Primary)   
American Indian Language Development Institute (AILDI)
Second Language Acquisition & Teaching Ph.D. Program (SLAT)
Department of Language,Reading and Culture
Department of Linguistics
The Southwest Center (Research)
Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836

"Every language is an old-growth forest of the mind, a watershed of thought,
an ecosystem of spiritual possibilities." 

                                                         Wade Davis...(on a
Starbucks cup...) 

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