[Lexicog] archaic entries

Filip Rudolf keiefar_66 at YAHOO.COM
Sat Feb 11 07:48:57 UTC 2006


My question was a rhetorical one. I know that 'archaic' and 'old-fasioned' are not interchageable but that's precisely what a dictionary user can sometimes think. And I chose the word 'perchance' simply because teams of eminent lexicographers don't seem to agree how to label it, which in turn means that the boundaries between these notions are somewhat fuzzy. I could try and find a better word, devoid of poetic connotations but it wouldn't change anything. Dictionaries are usually wriiten for average users, not for lexicographers or linguists, and these users are likely to be confused when they see the same words labelled in three or four different ways.

Filip Rudolf

Filip Rudolf <keiefar_66 at yahoo.com> wrote:    

Creative speakers surely cannot be stopped. People frequently revive words which are no longer commonly used simply because they want to enliven their speech. However, that doesn't mean a particular word ceases to be archaic.
Let me quote David Crystal: 'An archaism is a feature of an older state of the language which continues to be used while retaining the aura of its past'. (italics mine) (The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language, p. 185). 

Labelling words in a dictionary is probably the trickiest task a lexicographer is faced with - the word 'perchance'  is a good case in point:
'old use' - Cambridge International Dictionary of English (1995)
'archaic' or 'poetic' - 'The New Collins Dictionary and Thesaurus' (1989)
'old use' - 'Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary' (2000)
'chiefly poetic or humorous' - 'Longman Dictionary of the English Language'  (1994)
'an old-fashioned or literary word' - 'Collins Cobuild' (1990)
Is 'archaic' the same as 'old-fashioned'? Are these notios interchangeable? 
Who should make judgements - how should these judgements be made? Incidentally, the same holds good for such labels as 'spoken', 'informal', 'colloquial', 'slang'... 

Filip


Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling at sil.org> wrote:       "Obsolete" might go one step further. I have heard it used as a club (or  should I say "axe"?)
 by people who had an axe to grind and who tried to  expunge words from the
 language that did not fit their ideological agenda.  Such language engineering usually
 backfires.
  
 Fritz Goerling 

 
 It might be worth asking how various people differentiate "archaic" from  "obsolete" while we're at it.
  
 Andrew Dunbar.

 
 On 2/10/06, Fritz  Goerling <Fritz_Goerling at sil.org>  wrote:     Good point,    Phil, 
    
   Such a    judgment can kill a word. There is also the possibility of resurrecting or    rejuvenating a word labelled
   "archaic."    Who can hinder creative speakers from doing    so?
    
   Fritz    Goerling
      

 
   
thanks Filip, Jimm, I was also hoping to know who was making the    judgement of a term being 'archaic' - the lexicographer or the speaker    consultant(s) or speech community.    
 
   qo'c (later), 
   Phil Cash Cash    
      On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:04 AM, Filip Rudolf wrote:

   

goodtracks at peoplepc.com wrote:      I        use "archaic" as a term that has documented use  in past generations, but        
is no longer used or known by present day speakers. There may be        persons 
who recall the term however.
I use "old" for those terms        that may be heard from and used by a few 
persons, but are not the        usual word or pronunciation of a word that is        
current.
Jimm
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "phil cash        cash" <pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET>
To: <        lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 09,        2006 3:03 PM
Subject: [Lexicog] archaic entries


> Hi        everybody,
>
> I just wanted to ask for some input on the        intent or meaning behind 
> defining a dictionary entry as         "archaic."
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Phil Cash        Cash
> University of Arizona

<no longer used or known by        present day speakers> Well, perhaps <no longer used> would        suffice. Forms such as 'thou art' or 'thou shalt' are no longer used but        are surely understood by educated speakers. It would be interesting to        have a closer look at such labels as 'old', 'old use', 'archaic',        'obsolescent' or 'obsolete' as the the distinctions between them are not        clear-cut. 

Filip




     __________________________________________________
Do You      Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around      
http://mail.yahoo.com      


     SPONSORED      LINKS 
                            Science kits          Science education           Science kit for kid                 Cognitive science          Science education supply          My first science kit 
          
---------------------------------
     YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

             
   Visit your group "lexicographylist" on the web.
       
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email        to:
lexicographylist-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
       
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of        Service. 

          
---------------------------------
      



 



   SPONSORED    LINKS 
                    Science kits        Science education        Science kit for kid             Cognitive science        Science education supply        My first science kit 
      
---------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

        
    Visit your group "lexicographylist" on the web.
       
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email      to:
       lexicographylist-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
       
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of      Service. 

      
---------------------------------
   





-- 
http://linguaphile.sf.net
              
     

---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
  Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.           

        SPONSORED LINKS   
                                                    Science kits                                       Science education                                       Science kit for kid                                                                     Cognitive science                                       Science education supply                                       My first science kit                                                                 
      
---------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
 
    
    Visit your group "lexicographylist" on the web.
    
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 lexicographylist-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
    
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
 
    
---------------------------------
 
 
     

		
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lexicography/attachments/20060210/c4869498/attachment.html>


More information about the Lexicography mailing list