[Lexicog] Lexical Relations vs. Etymology

[Cheryl Reitz]

My colleague, a retired linguistic missionary (to Sudan) who is in the process of producing a Toolbox dictionary, had been advised several years ago to put "idiom" in the \ps Range Set, and she has several hundred idioms in her database.  The hierarchy is \lx (lexeme)>\se (subentry)>ps (part of speech)>\sn (sense number).  The positioning of "idiom" under \ps creates a problem when we try to print the dictionary.  Each idiom, like any new subentry, starts on a new line. The items under \sn do not start on new lines, which looks better and saves space. For the purpose of printing, then, it might be better if "idiom" (like other items such as \de [definitions] or \sy [synonyms]) were under \sn.  However, I'm not sure how we can do this using the standard MDF categories.  Any advice?
 

Cheryl


  _____  

From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Crockett
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 10:16 PM
To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Lexicog] Lexical Relations vs. Etymology




Ken,

Where do you label something as an idiom? I think some people label idioms in the part of speech field. I would think you could use the part of speech field to call it a calque.

Crockett

From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Frank
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 5:18 AM
To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Lexicog] Re: Lexical Relations vs. Etymology

 

I can't read Cyrillic script and I'm not too familiar with Shoebox or Toolbox or FieldWorks, but I think I see two problems here. It looks to me like you are citing an example of a phrase, and I would not try to give an etymology for a phrase. Words have etymologies; phrases don't. Or in the case of a calque, I suppose you could consider the source from another language as being a kind of etymology, but we wouldn't usually describe phrases as having etymologies.

Also, I wouldn't assign a part of speech to a phrase either. It looks like you are calling this phrase a noun, and I don't think that is appropriate. A phrase may contain a noun but wouldn't be called a noun or any other part of speech. Instead of a word class label, some people might want to assign a label that would be appropriate to phrases such as "phr" or "np", but I prefer to just leave the part of speech blank for anything I would put into a dictionary that is comprised of more than one word.

-- David Frank

---- Original Message ----- 

From: Kenneth Keyes <mailto:ken_keyes at sil.org>  

To: flex at lists.sil. <mailto:flex at lists.sil.org> org ; lexicographylist@ <mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 9:24 AM

Subject: [Lexicog] Lexical Relations vs. Etymology



Dear All, 



Hi, I have another brainteaser for you:



What relation do Calques bear to the language they are borrowed from? For example, I have the following entries:



АЗАМАТТЫҚ ХАЛ АКТІЛЕРІН ЖАЗУ  (АХАЖ) N  Eng vital statistics offfce - where changes in the lives of citizens are recorded Kaz азаматтардың өмір өзгерістерін тіркеп жазып отыратын бөлім Rus отдел записи актов гражданского состояния 

АХАЖ  Contr АЗАМАТТЫК ХАЛ АКТІЛЕРІН ЖАЗУ



Cf. SFM export: 



\lx АЗАМАТТЫҚ ХАЛ АКТІЛЕРІН ЖАЗУ

\sn 1

\ps_en N

\d_en vital statistics offfce - where changes in the lives of citizens are recorded

\d_kk азаматтардың өмір өзгерістерін тіркеп жазып отыратын бөлім

\d_ru отдел записи актов гражданского состояния



\lx АХАЖ

\et Contr

\mn АЗАМАТТЫК ХАЛ АКТІЛЕРІН ЖАЗУ



This a calque from the Russian: 



ЗАГС  N  Eng The government office where vital statistics are recorded. Kaz азаматтық хал-ахуалды тіркейтін бөлім актілерін жазу Rus отдел Записи Актов Гражданского Состояния calq: АХАЖ. (sem. domains: admin. - administration.) {coll.}



\lx ЗАГС

\sn 1

\ps_en N

\d_en The government office where vital statistics are recorded.

\d_kk азаматтық хал-ахуалды тіркейтін бөлім актілерін жазу

\d_ru отдел записи актов гражданского состояния

\lf calq

\lv АХАЖ

\is_en admin.

\sd_en administration

\u_en coll.



To handle this case, I created a lexical function called “Calque”. However, this is also the etymology of the word. How do I deal with the etymology? There are tons of these cases (of calques from Russian) in Eurasian languages. 



Thanks for considering this! 



Best regards,



Ken

 
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