LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 07.NOV.1999 (05) [E]

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From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 14.OCT.1999 (01) [E]

> From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
> Subject: Etymology
> 1. (Cooked) lobsters are red, shrimps are pink. If lobsters were called
> *granaat (etc) it would be more convincing.

I checked in the warehouse and I was surprised how much the "pealed" mini
river lobsters are alike to the pink shrimps, just the price makes them
different from the pink-gray North See shrimps:

_Grijze garnalen_ (tasty gray-pink little shrimps from the North See): BF
160 / 125 g
_Roze garnalen_ (pink-white shrimps imported from ? Bangladesh): BF 80 /
125g
(both "crevettes" in French)

and very much alike (the red stains more being sputtered on the white meat):
_Rivierkreeftjes_ ("chair d' écrevisse" in French): BF 85 / 125g (tiny mini
river lobsters)

The last new van Dale (13th edition, 1999, 3 vol.) has:
p. 1019 garnaal (1527-1540), ... etymologie onzeker, werllicht van het Mnl.
"grane" (snor)....
p. 1019 garnaat... geernaat, geernaart, gernaat...(gewestelijk): garnalen..
p. 1012 gamba .. (na 1950, Port.): een soort van grote garnaal
p. 2935 scampi, (plural:) scampi's (na 1950, It.): grote gekweekte garnalen,
syn. tijgergarnalen
 (the plural is curious since scampi is already the plurial of the Italian
scampo)

p. 1734 krab, (also:) krabbe (1287 'krab, kreeft' - Hd Krebs -, hoort bij
krabben, dus eig; 'de krabber')....
p. 1742 kreeft ... (1201-1250 Hd 'Krebs' en -krab)........
I guess when finding a word in old texts, it is not allways clear what
little beast one has been writing about.

"Thirion nieuwe dierengids" has for the family of lobster-alikes
(kreeftachtigen)
  p. 262 (the more insekt alikes:):
watervlo (Daphnia pulex)
waterpissebed (Asellus aquaticus)
ruwe pissebed (Porcellio scaber)
kelderpissebed (Oniscus asellus)
gewone oprolpissebed (Armadilidium vulgare)
zoetwatervlokreeft (Gammarus pulex)
  p. 264 (lobster and crab)
gewone rivierkreeft (Astacus astacus)
eenoogkreeftje (Cyclops sp.)
Amerikaanse rivierkreeft (Oronectes limosus)
Chinese wolhandkrab (Riocheir sinensis)
  p. 266 (lobster-alike and crab)
heremietkreeft (Pagurus bernhardus)
langspriet (Corophium volutatot)
gewone zwemkrab (Liocarcinus holsatus)
strandkrab (Carcinus maenas)
Noordzeekrab (Cancer pagurus)
  p. 268
zeekreeft (Homarus gammarus)
gewone garnaal (Crangon crangon)
gewone zeepok (balanus balanoides)
grote eendenmossel (Leps anatifera)

Regards,
Roger
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----------

From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Etymology

A couple of weeks ago Jasmin Harvey wrote:

>Actually, the _-ing_ of 'morning' makes me think of the  _-end_ in
_ochtend_, as in lachend = laughing, slapend = sleeping... So a present
participle used as an adjective/noun ("He's running" / "He's the
running man"/ "He's in the running")?<

I've just bought "Chambers Dictionary of Etymology". It's a reprint of the
"Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology" and retains US spellings. I chose it over
the "Oxford Etymological Dictionary" because it routinely gives dates for
the first recorded occurrences of words (and is much cheaper!).

CDE gives "morning" as "morn" + "-ing" (ca 1330) on the  model of earlier
"evening" (pre-1200). It distinguishes this "-ing" (cognate with Du. "-ing",
G. "-ung") from the present participle suffix "-ing", cognate with Du./G.
"-end".

Where does this leave the end/"-end" of Du. "ochtend"? De Vries simply says
"ochtend - met d-toevoeging uit mnl. "ochten", "uchten", which doesn't seem
to help.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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