LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 12.OCT.1999 (01)

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From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Etymology

Ron

Chambers Dictionary doesn't commit itself on the etymology of "shrimp". It
just says "Cf. "scrimp", and OE "scrimman" to shrink.

I wondered about the French words "crevette" and "{e'}crevisse, which look
vaguely similar.

"Ecrevisse", which by corruption and folk etymology gives "crayfish" or
"crawfish", comes  from OHG "krebiz", crab.
"Crevette", a shrimp or prawn (and borrowed into English with that sense),
is from Normandy French in  which it originally meant a young (female) goat
(MF "chevrette"). The connexion is that both jump.

Just to confuse matters, "crevette d'eau douce" (also "gammare") is a
freshwater crayfish or camaron (whence Australian "maron"). "Camaron" is
Spanish for "shrimp",  from Latin "cammarus", Greek "kammaros", a sea-crab.

I throw in the fact that in Mod Greek "garida" means "prawn, shrimp", just
in case someone can connect this with "garnaal" or "granaat" (any chance of
some metathesis here?).

I wrote "Normandy French" above because "Norman French" would imply the
language of 900 years ago. This seems relevant to the discussion on
"Nationality".

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: Jan Ter Ellen [Jan at spherical-group.demon.co.uk]
Subject: Etymology

Reinhard/Ron asked:

Firstly, "What is the common origin of the above words?"  Might it be
*_doon_
(or *_dn_) as a derivative of Latin _tonus_ 'tightening/stress (of a
string)',
'sound (produced by the plucking of a string)'; also Greek _tnos_) to
which
also English _tone_ ultimately goes back?  Of course, we also have the
hitherto
apparently unexplained semantic Middle English and Modern English
offshoot
_tune_.  However, would we not then expect *_tn_ < *_toon(e)_?  We do
find
that _tonus_ had been converted to both _tn_ and _dn_ in Middle High
German,
so *_t-_ > _d-_ was possible.  But what provoked umlauting in the
languages in
question?  *_dn_ < *_dn at _ < *_dne_ < *_dno_?

A very old Dutch dictionary I inherited from my mother suggested that
_deun_ is related to the English verb _to din_, making a continued
distracting noise, which like _deun_ has its roots in the Sanskrit verb
_dhunaya_, meaning essentially the same, making ongoing low level
noises.

Jan ter Ellen

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From: Jan De Craemere [rycobel at compuserve.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E/S] LOWLANDS-L, 08.OCT.1999 (04)

> Ligge stille, ligge stille,
> ik wil dik en boleken maken ...

In West Flandres 'boeleke(n)' means (little) baby.
So, the meaning of the song could be:

Lig stille, lig stille
ik zal je een kindje maken ...

Lie still, lie still
I will make you a baby (I will make you pregnant...)

Jan De Craemere

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