LL-L: "Etymology" (was "Phonology") [E/LS] LOWLANDS-L, 14.SEP.1999 (02)

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Phonology

[The following is in Low Saxon (Low German) and English.]

Leve Leeglanners,

Ünner ,,Phonology'' hett Jan De Craemere schreven:

> Could this be a low saxon influence or a common scandinavian influence.
> (I read somewhere that the town of Bruges was founded by scandinavian
> people - brygga = pier)

Beste Jan, ick glööv', 't kann wesen, dat keen een för wiss seggen kann, of dat
'n neddersassisch or
skandinaawsch Element is or of dat 'n nedderlandsch-intern nich-standard Element
([sX] > [sk]) is.
Ick heff ook al lang markt, dat welke nedderlandschen Nich-Standard-Dialekten
mit de
neddersassischen Dialekten 'n Barg Elementen gemeen hebbt, sogaar mit de
verdüütschten
Dialekten vun Norddüütschland.  Nu weett wie för wiss, dat wull eer  'n Barg
Sassen un
Skandinawiers an de Küst vun Nordbelgien un de süüdlichen Nedderlannen trocken
sünd, un daar
wegen schullen wie mit de Mööglichkeit vun sassische un skandinaawsche Inflöden
reken.  Man
denn schullen wie sückse Elementen tomeerst in de Küstendialekten söken.  Nu is
de Saak noch
vertrackter, wiel dat de Küst vun de neddern Lannen ook lang Kontakten mit de
Hanseliga harr, de
er internatschonale Spraak dat (Middel-)Neddersassische (Nedderdüütsche) was.
Vundagigendaags kannst noch 'n Barg Breven finnen, de vun Lüüd' in Antwerpen,
Brügg',
Amsterdam un annerwegens up Neddersassisch schreven worrn sünd.  Daarto kümmt
denn ook
noch, dat de skandinaawschen Spraken massive (middel-)neddersassische Inflöden
kregen harrn,
un daar wegen wardt de Saak noch vertrackter.

In't Skandinaawsche is dat Woord för ,,Brügg'' _brú_ (fem., _brúa_ ,de Brügg' >
dään. _bro_, norw.
Bokmål _bro_ ~ _bru_, norw. Nynorsk _bru_, sweed. _bro_), un dat bedüüdt 'n
Brügg över 'n
Stroom, u.s.w.   Dat Woord _bryggja_ gifft dat ook (> norw. Bokmål _brygge_,
norw. Nynorsk
_brygg(j)e_).  Ick versta dat so, dat 't to meerst 'n Brügg to'n Anleggen vun
Scheep bedüüdt.  Ick
harr meent, dat weer 'n neddersassisch Leenwoord, wiel dat ,,Brügge'' ~
,,Brügg'' up Neddersassisch
_bridge_ un _pier_,/_quay_ bedüüdt, avers dat gifft schients dat oldnoordsche
Woord _bryggja_.
Kunn de Naam _Brugge_ nich ook uut't Sassische kamen, or is he to old daar för?

Gröten,

Reinhard/Ron

***

Dear Lowlanders,

Jan De Craemere wrote under "Phonology":

> Could this be a low saxon influence or a common scandinavian influence.
> (I read somewhere that the town of Bruges was founded by scandinavian
> people - brygga = pier)

Dear Jan, I consider it possible that no one can say for sure if this is a Low
Saxon or Scandinavian
element or if it is a Dutch-internal non-standard element ([sX] > [sk]).  I have
been noticing for quite
some time now that some non-standard Dutch dialects have a lot of features in
common with
certain Low Saxon dialects, even with the Germanized dialects of Northern
Germany.  We do know
for sure that that many Saxons and Scandinavians migrated to the coast of
Northern Belgium and
the Southern Netherlands, and therefore we ought to expect some Saxon and
Scandinavian
influence.  However, we should look for these mostly among the coastal
dialects.  The situation is
complicated by the fact that for a long period the coast of the Low Countries
also had contacts with
the Hanseatic Trading League whose international lingua franca was (Middle) Low
Saxon (Low
German).  Nowadays you can still find lots of letters written in Low Saxon by
people in Antwerp,
Brugge, Amsterdam, etc.  Furthermore, Scandinavian languages experienced massive
(Middle) Low
Saxon influences, and this makes the situation even more complicated.

In Scandinavian, the word for 'bridge' is _brú_ (fem., _brúa_ ,the bridge' >
Dan. _bro_, Norw.
Bokmål _bro_ ~ _bru_, Norw. Nynorsk _bru_, Swed. _bro_).  There is also the word
_bryggja_ (>
norw. Bokmål _brygge_, norw. Nynorsk _brygg(j)e_).  As I understand it, that it
mostly means
'pier', 'quay'.  I used to assume that it was a Low Saxon loan (< _Brügge_),
because _Brügge'_ ~
_Brügg_ denotes both 'bridge' and 'pier', 'quay', but apparently there is the
Old Norse word
_bryggja_.  Couldn't the name _Brugge_ have come from Saxon as well, or is it
too old for that?

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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