LL-L: "Double negative" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 14.SEP.1999 (04)

[Lowlands-L Administrator]

 =========================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 14.SEP.1999 (04) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/~sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 =========================================================================
 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
 =========================================================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =========================================================================

From: wim kotze [wimkotze at hotmail.com]
Subject: Afrikaans double negative

Hello all,

As a native Afrikaans speaker, I am have always wondered about the double
negative in my language. One would think it could have been derived from
French, the Cape colony, where Afrikaans developed, having had a substantial
French speaking population in early colonial times. But the Afrikaans double
negative is preposterously different from that of French, or other tongues
like Welsh or certain forms of American English. I've included these
examples:
ek wil nie swem nie (I do not want to swim)
niemand gaan swem nie (Nobody's going to swim)
Question : does the double negative occur in any of the European lowland
dialects ? I once saw it explained in a Museum that it does occur in some
Dutch dialects.Still, I would like to offer my own explaination to the
double negative. Again consider the sentence:
ek wil nie swem nie (Dutch : Ik wil niet schwemmen (spelling ok ?))
Afrikaans, simplified as it is, does not differenciate between the infinitif
of the verb "to swim" and the first person form of it whereas Dutch and
German (yes I know German is not lowland, but it serves useful for this
explaination) do. Speakers of Dutch proper, who took on the Cape simplified
form later, might have found the double syllable (that many infinitives had)
difficult to ommit. They therefore inserted another syllable which was then
later understood to mean "nie", as in negative. Although any modern
Afrikaans speaker will still understand a sentence in which the last "nie"
is ommitted, it will sound incomplete, not illogical. The corresponding
Dutch sentences, however, do not sound incomplete to me, probably because of
the double syllable. To further support my claim, I may point out that "nie"
does not always occur. For instance:
Ek weet nie (Dutch: I weet niet   Eng: I don't know)
Here again, the rythm of the sentence corresponds to Dutch. I would really
appreciate any comments or other suggestions..

regards

Wim Kotze
http://members.tripod.com/wimkotze

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Double negative

Haai, Wim!

Double negatives also exist in many American English dialects, and they are by
many seen as one of the hallmarks of "bad English."

Double negatives are occasionally used in Low Saxon (Low German) as well.
This is almost regularly done with certain words, such as _nie (nich)_
(Eastern Friesland _nooit (neet)_) 'never'; e.g., _Ick heff so wat nie nich
beleevt_ 'I have never experienced anything like it'.  However, most people
would perceive as ungrammatical (*) constructions such as in Afrikaans, where
the two words come to be syntactically separated.

> ek wil nie swem nie (I do not want to swim)
*Ick will nich swimmen nich.
Ick will nich swimmen.

> niemand gaan swem nie (Nobody's going to swim)
*Nüms/Keeneen will swimmen nich.
*Nüms/Keeneen will nich swimmen.
Nüms/Keeneen will swimmen.

Groete,

Reinhard/Ron

==================================END======================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
 =========================================================================