LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 11.AUG.2000 (11) [E]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Fri Aug 11 23:17:47 UTC 2000
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L O W L A N D S - L * 11.AUG.2000 (11) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
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A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
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From: Kent Randau [kentr at tripnet.se]
Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 02.AUG.2000 (06) [E]
>From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
>Subject: Language standardisation
>
>This may be of interest in relation to some recent lines of discussion.
>
>The city fathers of Göteborg have decided that they don't like the
>international designation of "Gothenburg" for their home and have laid down
>that the Swedish name is to be used exclusively. The obvious problem is that
>"Göteborg" is unpronounceable to people who don't understand Swedish
>spelling conventions. The pronunciation, in a pseudo-phonetic English
>spelling, is "Yerterbory", the first two r's not being pronounced.
>"Goaterborg", which is closer to the way most English speakers are likely to
>pronounce the word, doesn't seem to be much of a gain on "Gothenburg". Since
>the use of unaccented vowels is more Internet-friendly this seems to be a
>peculiarly bad time to make the switch.
Sorry, this reply should have been written many moons ago. But I
recently invested in a CD-R, so I waste more time burning CD:s and
less reading Lowlands-L. Anyway, I live just five minutes south of
Götebotg/Gothenburg. (Actually I don't have any problem with the use
of Gothenburg internationally)
>BTW, the Swedish rule for e-mail addresses is that the accent is simply
>omitted. What is the rule in Lowland languages?
I object to the idea that the special characters in Swedish, å, ä, ö
are mere accented vowels. To a native Swedish speaker those
characters are very much their own letters representing it's own
sound. The omission in email-adress has nothing to do with those
letters being "accents". They are replaced by the most similar
international standard letter, i.e. a and o.
My apologies for being late and possibly irrelevant
Kent Randau
(just south of Göteborg/Gothenburg - in Mölndal)
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From: Henry Pijffers [hpijffers at home.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 11.AUG.2000 (06) [E]
John hef schreven:
>
>The Dutch plural of "radius" is "radii" (or "radiussen" - cf E. "radiuses").
>A number of Latin-derived words in "-us" form plurals in this way. "-a"
>would be the plural form of a noun in "-um", eg "musea", "gymnasia".
>
-a is also used for the plural of stadion (-> stadia).
Just thought of that...
Henry
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From: Henry Pijffers [hpijffers at home.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 10.AUG.2000 (09) [E]
Below I included my answer to Ron's questionaire.
I've edited it a little, added some tabs, instead of paces, for readability.
I also added a somewhat phonetic representation of my dialect.
(sorry, still don't know much about Sampa).
I added 14, 15, 16 and 17. I'm not sure how to explain how to pronounce
them, so I'll leave that to a later date, but I added the numbers, so I can
tag
the words that share the same sound, yet are different from the others.
regards,
Henry
Please indicate the number after each:
01 [a] (e.g. German _Mann_)
02 [a.] (slightly longer than 1)
03 [a:] (e.g. Dutch _baas_ or Australian _part_)
04 [a:.] (extra-long version of 1)
06 [Q] (e.g. Dutch _kan_)
07 [Q.] (half-long version of 4)
08 [Q:] (or [O:], e.g. "posh" British/South African _part_)
09 [Q:.] (extra-long version of 4)
10 [o:] (e.g. German _Rose_)
11 [o:.] (extra-long version of 10)
12 [oU] (e.g. _go_ in most English and American varieties)
13 [o.U] (longer version of 12)
Ron Henry Comment
man: man 01 ma' 01
day: dag 01 dag 01
that: dat 01 daet (??) sounds like "that", with d in front
roof: dak 01 dak 01
cat: kat 01 katte 01
to laugh: lachen 01 lachen 01
might: macht 01 mach' 01
strength: kraft/kracht 01 krach' 01
fast, tight: fast 01 fast(e) 01
damp: damp 02 damp 02
thank: dank 02 dank 02
dance: danss 02 dans(e) 02
tight: drang 02 strak 01
all: al 02 all' 01
to fall: fallen 02 fallen 01
comb: kam 02 kam 01
to catch: fangen 02 fangen 01
edge: kant 02 kant 02
paddock: kamp 02 kamp 02
sound: klang 02 klank 02
land: land 02 land 02
long: lang 02 lank 02
cherry: kars 03 ka's 01
cart: kar 03 karre 04
work: wark 03 woark (14)
wharf: warf(t) 03 woarf (14)
church: kark 03 koarke (14)
part: part 03 deel --
market: markt 03 moark (14)
mountain: barg 03 boarg (14)
piglet: farken 03 foarken (14)
color/paint: farv(') 03 foarve (14)
waggon: wagen 08 wag'n 03
to come: kamen 08 kommen (??)
open: apen 08 lös (??) "open" 11 is also used
to cook: kaken 08 kokken (??)
drive,ride: faart 08 jag'n 03 fören
to complain: klagen 08 klag'n 03
deed: daad 08 dååd (15) not sure about the "posh" part
ape,monkey: aap 08 aap 03 possible Dutch influence
to bathe: baden 08 baden 08
evening: avend 08 åmend (15)
moon, month: maand 08 måne (16), måånd (16)
sheep: schaap 08 schååp (15)
often: faken 08 fake 03 possible Dutch influence
pole, post: paal 08 poal (16)
(pea) pod: paal 08 pölle (??)
down(ward): daal 08 dale 08
to stand: staan 08 stoan (16)
train,track: baan 08 baan 03 possible Dutch influence
to dwell: wanen 08 wonnen (??) possible Dutch influence
done: daan 08 (e)dåån (15) the e is sometimes prepended
state: staat 08 stååt (15)
to let: laten 08 låten (15)
late: laat 08 late 03
pair,couple: paar 08 poar 14
beard: baard 08 board 14
fog: daak 08 mist Dutch loan?
to make: maken 08 maken 03
messengers: baden 08 ?
steel: staal 08 stoal (16)
boss: baas 08 baas 03
hare: haas 09 hazen 03
days: daag' 09 dage 03
lady: daam' 09 ? I always use "frau(e)"
messenger: baad' 09 ?
complaint: klaag' 09 klach' 01
coal: kaal(') 08/09 kol'n (??)
name: naam(') 08/09 naam 03 Dutch influence
so: soo 10/sou 12 soo 11
dead: dood 10/doud 12 dood 11
red: rood 10/roud 12 rood 11
bean: boon' 11/boun' 13 bone 11
merely: bloots 11/blouts 13 alenig -- sometimes "bloots" 11
right away: fourts 12 foorts 11
boat: bout 12 boot 11
book: bouk 12 book (17)
cake: kouken 12 koken (17)
bread: broud 12 stute ?? sometimes brood 11
cabbage: koul 12 kool 11
plumb: lout 12 lood 11
dream: droum 12 droum 12
tree: boum 12 boom 11
school: schoul 12/13 schole (17)
eye: oog 11/oug 13 oge 11
great: groot 11/grout 13 groot 11
success: spoud' 13 succes --
brine: loug' 13 ?
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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Standardization
kent Randau wrote:
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