LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 15.FEB.2000 (04) [D/E/French]
Lowlands-L Administrator
sassisch at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 15 21:05:59 UTC 2000
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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.FEB.2000 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
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From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 15.FEB.2000 (02) [D/E]
> From: Stefaan Vermeire [stefaan.vermeire at advalvas.be]
> Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 14.FEB.2000 (02) [E]
> Weet jij soms waar ik een exemplaartje van dat leerpakket "Limburgse
> streektaal" op de kop zou kunnen tikken?
Provincie Limburg
5de Directie "Cultuur"
Afdeling 5.2 "Cultuur en Bibliotheekwezen"
Mevr. Eef Proesmans
Universiteitslaan 1
B 3500 Hasselt
cb at limburg.be
tel +32-11-23.75.55 (direct 23.75.34)
fax +32-11-23.75.10
De juiste titel:
Rob Belemans & Jos van Thienen,
Creatief lespakket voor de tweede en derde graad van het secundair onderwijs
"Ich kal ooch Limburgs"
90 pp in Din A4
2 losse kaarten in Din A2
stickers "ich kal ooch Limburgs" (met varianten)
Gezien er een nieuwe druk gepland is, zal de voorraad wel sterk beperkt
zijn. Gelieve daarom goed te motiveren bij uw aanvraag.
Groetjes,
Roger
---------
From: Stefaan Vermeire [stefaan.vermeire at advalvas.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 15.FEB.2000 (02) [D/E]
For the situation of Dutch in the North of France (or "South Flanders", also
"French Flanders") see:
http://www.multimania.com/mdsk
the webside of the "Michiel de Swaenkring" / "Cercle Michel de Swaen",
information in Dutch and French, with also some interesting links.
Like Roger wrote, until now French is indeed the only official language of
the French Republic (decision of May 20, '99 of the constitutional court).
France has signed the European charter on the minority languages, but
without changing its constitution in which we can still found (article 2):
"la langue de la République est le français" (the language of the Republic
is French). There has been a proposal to add "in respect of the other
regional languages", but it was not accepted finally.
Dutch is teached as a foreign language in several schools (for many native
Flemish speakers of France "standard Dutch" sounds very strange, not to say
almost like another language - most of these people don't consider it as the
cultural form of their own dialect). In cities near to the Flemish-Belgian
border, primary and high schools (in French Menen (Menin), Zuid-Wervik
(Wervicq-sud), Halewijn (Halluin), Neerwaasten (Bas-Warneton)) have included
an important Dutch language program, since the knowledge of Dutch makes it
possible to find a good job on the other side of the border (region around
Kortrijk, surnamed "Texas of Flanders"). In other cities (Belle (Bailleul),
Hazebroek (Hazebrouck), Kassel (Cassel): also in other places, but I am not
so sure) it is given in several primary schools, but not in the high
schools.
The language course of dialect (Flemish dialect, local expression) are
mainly private initiatives, related with an interest in the local Flemish
folklore (music, dance, and folk theatre, the latter still very popular in
French-Flanders).
Other minority languages have been recognized, I think so - correct me if I
should be wrong - as regional languages for educational purpose: Brittan and
German. I don't think that other languages (Occitan, Bask, Italian or
Catalan) have been included in this regulation.
> I guess Dutch/Flemish is in the official list since it is sufficiently
> different from French for not being classified as a romance dialect. The
> real issue, I think, is: you hardly find anybody below 50 who is still
> speaking it.
Indeed, but at a certain moment (before WW I) the French republican
politicians considered it as a "French dialect with important Germanic
influences"...
There is a rather special evolution in the North of France: on one hand we
can observe that Dutch in its local spoken form (Flemish) is disappearing,
but on the other we see a more than lively interest in the own Flemish
culture (history, dance, music, Dutch language, etc.) and also the
"re-found" Flemish identity (I have met several young French speakers who
considered themself to be Flemings - this is a cultural identity, since they
don't object against their French citizenship). The latter is very strong in
a city like Rijsel (Lille).
Stefaan R.W. VERMEIRE.
----------
From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 15.FEB.2000 (02) [D/E]
Thanks to Stefaan Vermeire for the information about Dutch in France.
He wrote:
> Other minority languages have been recognized, I think so - correct me if I
> should be wrong - as regional languages for educational purpose: Brittan
> and
> German. I don't think that other languages (Occitan, Bask, Italian or
> Catalan) have been included in this regulation.
Stefaan, but does this not contradict the apparent constitutional institution
of monolinguism ("La langue de la République est le français")? How can it be
that some languages can become officially recognized while this declaration is
a stumbling block for others? It sounds quite contradictory to me -- but I
suppose not everything needs to be logical in language politics.
According to what I can find on it, *none* of the languages claiming minority
or regional status in France has been officially recognized so far, but there
seems to be some _de facto_ recognition in some cases. So we find
(<http://www.eurolang.net/State/france.htm>) for instance in reference to
German used in France that "In certain official texts reference is made to
'Alsatian dialects whose written form is German. German is therefore one of
France's regional languages,'" but "Neither variants of German [i.e., Asatian
and Rhenish Frankish] enjoy any official legal recognition." As far as I
know, the same stumbling block applies to all of France's minority/regional
languages seeking official recognition: Breton, Catalan, Corsican, Creole,
German, Basque, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Occitan and Langue d'Oïl varietes.
I suppose this is a clear case of constitutionally enshrined linguistic
monopoly, more strictly enforced even than that of Greece which recognizes
Turkish in Western Thrace but so far recognizes no other lesser used language
(Albanian, Aromanian, Pomak, Slav-Macedonian). What prevents French
law-makers from interpreting the constitution in such a way that "La langue de
la République est le français" means "French is the *national* language"
(i.e., lingua franca)? This would allow for the recognition of other
languages within more limited contexts (ethnic minorities, regional). But I
assume that this more liberal interpretation would not really suit the more
francocentric law-makers.
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
----------
From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 15.FEB.2000 (02) [D/E]
> From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
> Subject: LL-L: "Language policies" LOWLANDS-L, 14.FEB.2000 (01) [E]
> > From: gdeutsch at estec.esa.nl
> > Subject: Lowlands in France
> > I wonder about the official status of Dutch (or Flemish, if you want) in
> > Northern France:
> There are some pages on the web, from a group called C.A.L.F., if I do
> remember well. I will try to find them this evening.
Below are some excerpts from two websites:
1. The CALF website:
http://perso.infonie.fr/giannieanna/calf/present.htm
--- an excerpt, quote:
Collectif pour l'Avenir des Langues de France
Nous sommes citoyens de la République française, issus ou interessés de près
aux langues et cultures minoritaires de France(*), et préoccupés par leur
situation difficile à l'heure actuelle.
(*) Ces langues sont (dans l'ordre alphabétique)
- l'alsacien
- le basque
- le breton
- le catalan
- le corse
- le ___flamand___
- le francique
- l'occitan (provençal, gascon, languedocien, auvergnat, limousin et alpin)
2. A site with the full text of the Poignant report
http://www.multimania.com/insanne/poignant/poignant.html
LANGUES ET CULTURES REGIONALES
Rapport de Monsieur Bernard Poignant, Maire de Quimper à Monsieur Lionel
Jospin, Premier Ministre
-- In the list of regional languages, quote:
Sur le territoire de la métropole et outre-mer, il est ainsi possible de
répertorier:
(a long list, including:)
- Le ___Néerlandais___, implanté sur la frange flamande du département du
Nord, ne figure pas aujourd'hui sous l'étiquette "langue régionale"; il fait
toutefois l'objet d'une épreuve spécifique dans le cadre du C.A.P.E.S. d'
anglais.
-- he qualifies "Flemish-Dutch" (???) as a language, quote:
Certaines, comme le basque ou ___flamand-néerlandais___, le catalan, l'
alsacien et sa forme écrite l'allemand sont des "langues transfrontalières".
Elles sont largement soutenues par les régions et pays voisins où le nombre
de locuteurs est très important. Régionales en France, elles permettent à
des habitants de pays différents de se comprendre. Dans ce cas, il est
aujourd'hui évident que l'union européenne alimente la volonté de perpétuer
la connaissance de la langue si elle favorise échanges et relations en deçà
et au-delà de la frontière.
Regards,
Roger
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