LL-L: "Folklore" LOWLANDS-L, 09.OCT.2000 (09) [E/LS/Danish]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Tue Oct 10 01:17:54 UTC 2000
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L O W L A N D S - L * 09.OCT.2000 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Wabmaister [Andy.Eagle at t-online.de]
Subject: LL-L: "Folklore" LOWLANDS-L, 09.OCT.2000 (05) [D/E/LS/Z]
R. F. Hahn wrote:
> This is interesting considering that the English "nickname" of the little
> finger is "pinkie". Dictionaries say that its use is specifically
Scottish
> (Scots?) and American. Might this be a Dutch or Zeelandic loan in Scots
> loaned by American English, or might it even be a Dutch or Zeelandic loan
> in Scottish English/Scots and American English independently, if it is a
> Dutch loan at all?
It could well be a Dutch loan, I remember reading something along those
lines recently. I thought it might have been in 'The Dutch Element in the
Vocabulary of Scots' by David Murison in 'Edinburgh Studies in English and
Scots, Longman, London 1971. I just had a quick glance through but couldn't
find 'pnkie'.
Andy
[Full name: Andy Eagle (A poster's full name must be visible, even if
first and last name are in different places.) RFH]
----------
From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Folklore
Dear Lowlanders,
Jakob Liek wrote:
> dutch: pink
> zeelandic: pienke
I wrote:
> This is interesting considering that the English "nickname" of the little
> finger is "pinkie". Dictionaries say that its use is specifically
> Scottish
> (Scots?) and American. Might this be a Dutch or Zeelandic loan in Scots
> loaned by American English, or might it even be a Dutch or Zeelandic loan
> in Scottish English/Scots and American English independently, if it is a
> Dutch loan at all?
Andy Eagle wrote:
> It could well be a Dutch loan, I remember reading something along those
> lines recently. I thought it might have been in 'The Dutch Element in the
> Vocabulary of Scots' by David Murison in 'Edinburgh Studies in English
and
> Scots, Longman, London 1971. I just had a quick glance through but
couldn't
> find 'pnkie'.
Now that I've mulled it over some more I seem to remember _Pinkefinger_ for
'little finger' from my early childhood in prehistory. I'm not sure if
it's Low Saxon (Low German), Missingsch, Northern German, or German in
general. I have a feeling that it's at least Low Saxon (Low German) and
Missingsch (i.e., German dialects on Low Saxon substrates), possibly also
Northern German.
Jüst nu besinn ick mie an'n Naam "Pinkefinger" för'n lütten Finger. Ick
glööv', dat is neddersassisch/nedderdüütsch un missingsch, amenn ook
noorddüütsch. Besinnt Jie annern Noorddüütschen Ju ook daar an? Ligg ick
daar richtig?
And now some ethnobotany:
Niels Winther wrote:
> Now - I should not forget about the Elder-ears. It is in fact a fungus:
> Auricularia auricula-judae. The fruiting body displays in humid weather,
> but disappears overnight when dry, not literally of course; it rather
> transforms rapidly into some inconspicuous minute hard scales or nodules
> when drying out. I am told that this fungus is not very common when you
> are far away from the sea. Now, since I spent my childhood very near the
> extreme northern end of the wadden sea, this was such a common
phenomenon,
> that it was considered a natural law that old Elders have ears.
There are web pages about this edible fungus, including pictures:
http://www.fishing-in-wales.co.uk/wildlife/fungi/jewsear.htm (English)
http://www.magwien.gv.at/ma59/pilze/judasohr.htm (German)
Here are other names of _Auricularia auricula-judae_:
Danish: Judasøre
Dutch: Judasoor
English: Jew's ear, Juda's ear
Finnish: Juudaksenkorva
French: Oreille de Judas
German: Judasohr, Ohrpilz, Holunderschwamm
Italian: Orechietta di Giuda
Norwegian: Judasøre
Polish: Uszak bzowy
Russian: Ushi iudiny
Swedish: Judasøra
I have no idea what it is in Low Saxon (Low German), but I would expect
*_Judasoor_ (~ *_Judasohr_).
As for the reference to Judas,
---begin quote---
Like the Aspen, Fig and the Oak it is thought that the Elder may have been
the wood that was used for the cross at Christ's Crucifixion. <...>
The association of the Elder tree with Judas, who is believed to have
hanged himself from such a tree, may give rise to why it is reputed that it
is never struck by lightning in a storm in fear of reprisal.
'And faste by, is zit the Tree of Eldre that Judas henge him self upon,
for despeyr that he hadde, whan he solde and betrayed oure Lord.'
Sir John Maundeville : The Voiage and Travaille
---end quote---
(http://www.mystical-www.co.uk/treese.htm)
The medicinal properties are described in Danish (with some explanations in
English and German) here: http://www.odont.au.dk/LibHerb2/pn0148.HTM
And a quaint Danish culinary description
(http://home4.inet.tele.dk/bendt/page7.html):
--begin quote--
Judasøre.
Judasøre ligner virkelig et øre, så en god høst kan se næsten makaber ud på
køkkenbordet og være morsom at skræmme sine gæster med. Den smager ikke af
så meget, men ser flot ud i en suppe. Den er meget let at kende og kan vist
ikke forveksles med nogen giftige svampe. Den vokser kun på hyldetræer ved
havet.
--end quote--
(The gist of it: It may not have much of a flavor, but it's so ear-like
that it cries out for hosts to scare their dinner guests. It's easy to
tell apart from poisonous fungi and grows exclusively on elder plants.)
This fungus is also well-known and well-liked in Eastern Asia -- and
apparently it's the same one. In China it is _(Hei) Mu er_ ("(black) tree
ear") or _Yun er_ ("cloud ear"), in Japanese _Kikurage_ (. Thus it seems
to be the edible fungus known to most people who are familiar with Chinese
cuisine, in which case it is known as "Cloud ear fungus", "Szechwan
fungus", "Hunan fungus" or "Yunnan fungus" in English (and _Champignon
oreille de Chine_ in French).
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
----------
From: Lone Elisabeth Olesen [baxichedda at yahoo.com]
Subject: "Folklore"
R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com] wrote:
> > Danish _sligepøt_ and Norwegian _slikkepøtt_
> appear to go back to an older
> > Low Saxon (Low German) loan, perhaps via Southern
> Jutish. In that case
> > _slikke_ is native for 'to lick (out)' (= _slige_
> in Southern Jutish or
> > other dialects?),
The Danish word, as I know it, is _slikkepot_ . My
ethymological dictionary has also _slikbøtte_ as a
word used in Jutland. Unfortunately, there is no
mention of which part of Jutland. But the meaning is
the same: somebody who licks something out of a bowl
or similar container of foods. The way I understood it
as a child, it would be something very good to eat.
Also the word _slik_ means sweets of any kind.
and _pøt_/_pøtt_ is imported.
> Danish and Norwegian (only
> > Bokmål?) do have _potte_ for 'pot', but apparently
> mostly for clay pots,
> > such as flower pots, and the plural is _potter_.
> Or am I wrong there?
> > (Cf. Danish _pottemageri_ 'potter's shop',
> _pottemagerler_ 'pottery clay',
> > _potteskår_ 'broken piece of a pottery item') The
> usual word for '(metal)
> > pot (for cooking)' is Danish _gryde_ and Norwegian
> _gryte_ or in some cases
_potte_ in Danish today is mostly used for two things:
the pot you plant your flowers in, and also the one
for very small children (as in English?).
The expression "potter og pander" (pots and pans)
refers more or less to everything there is of tools in
a kitchen.
_pottemageri_ is also the potter's creations: and here
it is clay pots only. The other kinds of _potte_ can
be of any material possible.
But I think there is something more to pots... I have
always understood "-pot" when used as a suffix as in
_slikkepot_ - as an expression applying to a person.
There is also Askepot (Aschenpuddel) and if a person
is very grumpy and complaining, he can be a _gnavpot_
(gnav n.= nag, gnaven vb. = to be grumpy/angry).
_rumlepotte_ was also an older slang word for an old
used car.
And thinking of _slikbøtte_ from before, I remember
also _fyldebøtte_ and _sludrebøtte_. The first is a
drunkard, and the other is sombody who always talks
rubbish or talks too much.
The idea of _-bøtte_ as a suffix is the person seen as
some sort of "container" of things/characteristics,
always used in a negative sense, and I tend to see
_-pot_ or _-potte_ in the same way.
Greetings., Lone Olesen
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