LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 23.FEB.2001 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.FEB.2001 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Stefan Israel [stefansfeder at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Ron wrote:

> I have never come across *_Dalben_ or *_Dalven_ by itself.

I had some vague recollection of some word like "Dolben" or the
like meaning 'peg' (I was thinking of _Dübel_, which is hardly
likely to be related).  While searching in my Duden
Universalwörterbuch, I came across High German (from Low German)
_Dalbe, Dalben_ "Kurzf[orm] von Duckdalbe, Duckdalben".  It
lists _die Duckdalbe/ der Duckdalben_ and "seltener Dückdalbe /
Dückdalben".  Their tentative etymology is to the tauchen/duiken
word and to Dolle < mniederd. _dolle_ "drehbare eiserne Gabel an
der Bordwand zur Aufnahme des Ruders"

It's something of a stretch from _dolle_ to _dalve_, but I can't
think of anything better right off.

English "dowel [pin]" [dau. at l] is listed as coming from Low
German _dövel_, 'peg, block, nail".  Again, it's a stretch to
turn _dövel_ into _Dalve_.

Stefan

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From: Edwin Alexander [edsells at idirect.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 23.FEB.2001 (03) [E]

At 07:53 AM 02/23/01 -0800, Stephan wrote:
>It also points out that the English bird the duck presumably
>gets its name from this verb.

"What did the Rooster do when it started to rain?"

"He took a duck under the porch"

Sorry, couldn't resist.  Say, Ron, I wonder how this pun would translate
into LS?

Ed Alexander
JAG REALTY INC.
80 Jones Street Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8R 1Y1
Pager: 905-312-5204  Fax: 905-525-6671 http://www.deerhurst.com/jag/

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Stefan wrote:

> I had some vague recollection of some word like "Dolben" or the
> like meaning 'peg'

Perhaps (*_Dolbe_ >) Modern North Saxon _Doll(e)_ [dO.l(e)] ~ _Dull_ [dU.l],
which denotes not only 'peg' and specifically 'one of two pegs between which a
boat's paddle is anchored' but can also be used to denote the same as
_Dückdalben_ ~ _Düükdalben_ ~ _Duckdalben_ mentioned earlier.  However, I
cannot think of any other instances of assimilation of /b/ or /v/ to preceding
/l/ (/lb/~/lv/ -> ll), while assimilation of /d/ to preceding /l/, /r/ and /n/
is common in North Saxon dialects (/ld/ -> ll, /rd/ -> r(r), /nd/ -> nn; e.g.,
_holden_ > _hol(l)en_ 'to hold', _warden_ > _warren_ 'to become', _finden_ >
_finnen_ 'to find').  Besides, _Doll(e)_ ~ _Dull_ is feminine (pl. _Dollen_ ~
Dullen_), and I would expect _Dolben_ ~ _Dolven_ to be masculine.

I have never come accross *_Dövel_ or *_Döbel_ in modern dialects.  On the
other hand, Low Saxon (Low German) likes to metathesize certain consonant
sequences, especially those involving liquids (/l/ and /r/).  We have examples
such as /köür+S/ 'choice' + manner > (_köörsch_ ~) _küürsch_ > _krüüsch_
'choosy', 'picky', and *_wilge_ > _Wichel_ 'willow'.  Thus, I can imagine
earlier *_dövel_ ~ *_dovel_ to have metathesized to (*_dolve_ or *_dolev_ >)
_Doll(e)_.  Gender does not seem to be too much of a problem, considering that
a great many Low Saxon nouns occur dialectally with different genders,
sometimes with all three genders.

Ed:

> "What did the Rooster do when it started to rain?"
>
> "He took a duck under the porch"
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist.  Say, Ron, I wonder how this pun would translate
> into LS?

Sorry, Ed.  It doesn't work, for two reasons:

(1) 'to take a {verb>noun)', 'to go for a {verb>noun}' and 'to have a
{verb>noun}' is uniquely English (and Scots?), I believe.

(2) /duuk-/ _duken_ ~ /duk-/ _ducken_ 'to duck' vs /aant/ _Aant_ ~ _Oont_
'duck' (the bird)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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