LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 28.JUL.2001 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 28.JUL.2001 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachian, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Dear Lowlanders,

I am wondering about the etymology of the Dutch word _ouderwets_ and the
West(erlauwers) Frisian cognate _âlderwetsk_, both meaning 'oldfashioned'.
Clearly, _ouder..._ and _âlder..._ are derived from (_old_ >) _oud_ and
_âld_ 'old'.  But what about the rest of these words?  I assume the
presence of the manner suffix (_-sch_ >) _-s_ and _-sk_ (cognates of
English _ish_, Low Saxon _-sch_ and German _-isch_).  This would leave a
supposed word _wet_.  Might this be _wet_ 'law', 'rule', 'statute'?  I
guess it would make sense: "in the manner/way of old rules."

I wonder if Low Saxon (Low German) _ollerwelsch_ ['?Ol3vE%lS] ~
_ollerweltsch_ ['?Ol3vE%ltS] 'old -fashioned' is related to the above.
_Oller..._ clearly comes from _older..._, thus is the cognate of Dutch
_ouder..._ and West(erlauwers) Frisian _âlder..._.  I used to believe that
the _...welsch_ part had something to do with obsolete German _welsch_
denoting 'foreign', oftentimes specifically 'Romance', originally 'Celtic'
(related to 'Gaelic', 'Gallic', 'Gaulic', 'Welsh', etc., Germanic *_walhoz_
'foreign', in reference to the Romanized Celtic people of France,
Switzerland, etc.).  For a time I used to guess that it came from
_-weltsch_, namely from _Welt_ 'world', thus "old-world-like".  (This
would, of course, not work with the Low Saxon dialects that retain original
_Wereld_ for 'world'.)  Now I am wondering if _ollerwel(t)sch_ is a
"distortion" of *_ollerwettsch_, thus a cognate of the Dutch and
West(erlauwers) Frisian words.  Yes, Low Saxon, too, has the word _Wett_ ~
_Wedd_ [vEt] (feminine, pl. _Wedden_ ['vEd=n]) and can use it in the same
sense as Dutch and West(erlauwers) Frisian use _wet_, especially in the
far-western dialects.  What do my fellow etymologists think?

Other Low Saxon words for 'old-fashioned' are _oldmoodsch_ ['?o%ltmo:tS]
(cf. German _altmodisch_ < _Mood'_ < _Mode_ < French _mode_ 'fashion',
'manner'), _oldbacksch_ ['?o%ltbakS] (assumedly from _backen_ 'to bake'),
and _oldfranksch_ ['?o%ltfra%NkS] ~ _oldfränksch_ ['?o%ltfrE%NkS].  I find
the last of these intriguing, because it literally means "Old Frankish,"
considering that this is a Saxon word, and considering the historically
uneasy relationship between Franks and Saxons.  Does anyone know the story
behind this word?

Your feedback will be appreciated.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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