LL-L "Expressions" 2002.02.24 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 24.FEB.2002 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 Rules: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/rules.html>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Expressions

John M. Tait wrote under "Pronouns":

> The fact that the word 'certainly', or an equivalent, is not used in
> the Scots raises an important point with regard to Scots prose writing.
> The sort of Scots one often sees written - translated word for word
> from a (mental or written) English original - loses all of the native
> nuances of the language by substituting standard English forms.
>
> My favourite example from Shetlandic is that, in Shetlandic, the word
> 'please' can scarcely be said to exist. But this does not mean that
> Shetlanders are rude. They express the same meaning by use of different
> verb forms, e.g.:
>
> Can du help me ta caa da crui da morn? - Can you help me to round up
> the sheep tomorrow?
>
> Coud du a helpit me tae a caad da crui da morn - Can you please help
> me to round up the sheep tomorrow?

This is also the case in Low Saxon (Low German) of Germany, probably
also of the Netherlands, except that Dutch borrowings tend not to be as
glaring due to the close relationship between the two languages.

Many people in Germany using Low Saxon now say and write _bitte_
'please'.  This is undoubtedly a German loan, for _bitte_ comes from
_ich bitte_ 'I beg/request', and that would be _(ik) be(ed')_ in Low
Saxon_, which is used when this is meant literally (e.g., _Ik be(ed')
di_ 'I beg of you'), not in the sense of polite 'please' in either a
request or in reply to "thank you" (i.e., "You are welcome," "Don't
mention it") which, to the best of my knowledge, has no native
equivalent.  Like in John Magnus' Shetlandic equivalent, you would
phrase it differently:

Kannst mi morgen bi 't Tohoopdrieven (vun de Schaap) helpen?
Can you help me to round up (the sheep) tomorrow?

Kannst maal so good wesen un mi morgen bi 't Tohoopdrieven (vun de
Schaap) helpen?
Can you please help me to round up (the sheep) tomorrow?

Thus, in this case, _so good wesen un ..._ ("to be so good (= kind) and
...") expresses what in German is _bitte_ and in English is "please".
It may also stand at the beginning of a request: _Wees' so good, (un)
..._ ("Be so good, (and) ..._).

Of course, this is very much like in Scandinavian:

Danish: (vær så god >) værs'go' (og)
Norwegian (Bokmål): vær så god (og)
Swedish: var så god (och)

I wonder if there is a loan connection between the Scandinavian and Low
Saxon phrases, considering that the Icelandic equivalent is _gerið svo
vel (að) ..._ ("do so well (as to) ...")

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 * Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================