LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.26 (06) [E/S]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 26.FEB.2002 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "Bill Malthus" <bill.malthus at nzse.co.nz>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.26 (04) [E]

> From: "Randy Elzinga" <frisiancow at hotmail.com>
> Of course, the real classic is the English 'for you and I'.

This one is very usual in New Zealand English.  I suspect it is more
than a hypercorrection and the grammar is truly changing:

the new rule is that case forms of pronouns can only be applied
when the pronoun is on its own, but when it is part of a group it
stays in the basic form, or rather the whole phrase takes a case
form, that happens to be the same as the base form for the object,
thus "for I" becomes "for me"
but "for (you and I) remains as "for you and I".

I noticed "for we Americans" many years ago, in an American
publication.

When the phrase is possessive the case form ends in "s" and we
get a whole phrase with "'s" on the end, "the car over there's
number plate".  This seems to be normal these days, though "Kevin
and I's joint bank account" startled me when I heard it.

This phenomenon is not limited to English, an example in a book
about developments in Swedish is "han some var sjuks cykel"
(He who was sick's bike)

Bill Malthus

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From: Edwin Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.26 (04) [E]

At 12:24 PM 02/26/02 -0800, Randy wrote:
>I can remember in the second grade class mates saying something like "George
>and me went to the playground" or "Me and George...".  My teacher would
>correct them saying "George and I..."  but never explained why the first is
>incorrect and the second is correct.

The way I explained it to my daughter was to ask her to take the non-first
person noun or pronoun out of the sentence and see how it
sounded:  e.g.  Me and George went to the playground > Me went to the
playground.  or The book was given to George and I > The book was given to I.

Although the Me and George form is extremely prevalent in local Canadjun
dilect, it is still a real "low class" indicator.

Ed Alexander
JAG REALTY INC.
80 Jones Street Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8R 1Y1
Pager: 905-312-5204  Fax: 905-525-6671  www.jagrealty.com

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From: "John M. Tait" <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.24 (09) [E]

Sandy wrote:
>
>Since I spent my childhood speaking Scots and only started
>using English in earnest in Wales, I don't really know
>Scottish English.
>
Didna get aff wi speakin SCOTS at ST ANDRAE'S UNIVERSITY, did ye, Sandy? Fegs!

John M. Tait.

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