LL-L "Expressions" 2002.01.09 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 09.JAN.2002 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: denis dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Expressions" 2002.01.09 (03) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Expressions
>
> Dear Lowlanders,
>
> In some Low Saxon (Low German) dialects of Northern Germany we have the
> expression _hoogdüütsch snacken_ or _hoogdüütsch reden_ ("to talk/speak High
> German," i.e., German, _hoog_ [ho:x] ~ [hoUx] 'high' usually misspelled as
> _hooch_ or _hoch_, as opposed to inflected _hoge_ ['ho:ge] ~ ['hoUge] and
> _hogen_ ['ho:g=N] ~ ['hoUg=N]).
>
> This expression can convey the following meanings, depending on context,
> situation and tone:
>
> (1) 'to talk/speak in German'
>     (which may include the "mixed" Missingsch dialects)
>     An alternative to this is _geel snacken_ "to talk yellow," which,
>     however, may also denote the following 'to talk in a pretentious
>     manner,' 'to talk in a sarcastic manner,' 'to speak invented/fake
>     Low Saxon as a German speaker'.
>
> (2) 'to make something abundantly clear (once and for all)'
>
> (3) 'to talk seriously', 'to have a serious talk with someone', 'to tell
>     someone off', 'to give someone a piece of one's mind'
>
> (4) 'to give someone a beating'
>     For instance, _Ik snack glieks maal hoogdüütsch mit di_ "I'll
>     speak High German with you in a second" = 'I've just about had it
>     with you (and will give you a hiding if you keep that up)', but I
>     guess this could also be construed as a threat to get a good
>     talking-to, depending on the permissible level of aggression in a
>     given relationship.
>
> Obviously, the foundation of all this is the association of "Platt" (Low
> Saxon) as familiar, usually friendly, and certainly informal and
> unpretentious, versus "High" German as formal, official, distant, serious and
> pretentious.
>
> I wonder if similar types of expressions are used in other lower-prestige
> language varieties vis-à-vis respective dominant and higher-prestige language
> varieties.

"Snakken" in Westflemish, means, talk in angry way. Nervously talking.
There is an expression in westflemish, saying "ol wat ie doet, is snak'n en
bitt'n (to bite)"
Which means : "All he does is "-snakn-" and bite", meaning, "he doesn't even
listen to anybody, he just shouts and yells."
Hope this helps...
denis dujardin
westflanders
belgium.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Expressions

Thanks, Denis!

_Snacken_, _snakken_, _snakn_, etc. (['snak=N]), is the normal word for 'to
speak' or 'to talk' in most of the North Saxon dialects of Northern Germany.
In the Low Saxon (Low German) dialects of Eastern Friesland and in those of
the surrounding areas and across the border in the Northeastern Netherlands it
tends to be _praten_, _proaten_, _praotn_, etc. (['prQ:t=n]).  In the
Westphalian dialects it tends to be _küren_ (['k(`)y:3=n]).  Some dialects
have _reden_, _räden_, etc. (['re:d=n] ~ ['rE:d=n]), and/or _spreken_,
_spräken_, etc. (['spre:k=N] ~ ['sprE:k=N]), exclusively or additionally.  If
there is a choice between one of the above and _spreken_, then _spreken_ tends
to be perceived as the more formal choice.

In other words, in the Northern Low Saxon dialects that use it, _snacken_ is
the *ordinary* word for 'to talk' or 'to speak', without the connotation of
anger that _snakken_ has in West Flemish.  If I understand you correctly, the
West Flemish meaning corresponds to English 'to snap' as in 'Don't you snap at
me!' Thus, _Ol wat ie doet, is snak'n en bitt'n_ 'All he (ever) does is snap
and yell (at people)', in Northern Low Saxon probably something like _Allens
wat he dait is blaffen un bieten_ (?a:lns vat hEI da.It ?Is 'blaf=m un
'bi:t=n]), or perhaps rather _He dait nix as blaffen un bieten_ ([hEI da.It
nIks ?as 'blaf=m un 'bi:t=n]).

However, I find your information quite interesting, because it may point to an
earlier or even original meaning of the verb _snak-_.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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