LL-L "Etymology" 2002.07.14 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 14.JUL.2002 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Randy Elzinga" <frisiancow at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.07.13 (04) [E/LS]

Fiete wrote:

>these days I found in a French dictionary the translation for the famous
>name "Angelique" into "Angel-like" (Germ. "Engel-gleich"). We got the
>same
>name in German as "Angelika".
>I felt surprised, first because of the part "-lique". It's so obvious
>similar to Engl. "like" and Low Saxon "liek (li:k)", Upper Germ.
>"gleich"
>with the same meaning! Could it be a Germanic loan in this typical
>french
>name, or is "Angelika" the older one?
>
>Then I made some thoughts about the French (and Spanish, thanks,
>Gabriele!)
>"Ange", Engl. "angel", Germ. "Engel". It's not of Latin-Romanic origin,
>I
>think (there were no angels in the ancient greece/roman mythology),
>though
>there may be an "angelus" at any place. If it is, it's  just a later
>"latinized" form, used in the middle-ages by christianic translators and
>writers.
>
>So- whats Your opinion about it?
>
>Regards
>
>Fiete.

Fiete, Lowlanders,

The word 'angelos' was used in New Testament Greek for 'messenger', and
probably as the Greek equivalent for Old Testament Hebrew ' mal'akh '
also
meaning messenger.  I don't know about for any of the other forms of
Greek.
This is the source for 'angel' etc.  Did the Greek gods not have
messengers?
  I presume that some form of this word was used in translating when the
messenger in question was not of human form.  The concept of angels as
well
behaved beings came later, though I know not through what historical
development.  The angels of the Bible were actually quite the
troublemakers.
  So neither the Greeks, nor the Romans, nor the Jews, nor the
Christians
had angels as we think of them today.

Couldn't angelique be divided into 'angel-' and '-ique', with the
'-ique' possibly corresponding to '-ic' as in 'germanic' or
'christianic'(as
you write above).  So 'angelique' could (or should) have been translated
as
'angelic' (which essentially means angel-like anyways).  I don't know
which
language borrowed from which, if there is indeed a connection between
'-ic'
and '-ique'.  I don't know what the related suffixes are in any other
languages of interest on this list either.

Randy Elzinga
frisiancow at hotmail.com

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From: Ysmael Tisnado <guarda3 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.07.13 (05) [E]

We say suerte in Mexico and the southwest but I
will try to find a good equivalent soon.

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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2002.07.12 (01) [E]

> From: "" <johnno55 at excite.com>
> Subject: Verb forms in Afrikaans
>
> Groete aan al die laelanders,
>
> In reading some of the recent contributions I was struck by verb forms
> that I assumed had come into Afrikaans as a
> result of mishearing or mispronouncing the 17 th century Dutch by the
> mixed bag of early settlers at the Cape.
>
> I was astonished to find that the verb gee loses the "f" in some of the
> languages spoken in the lowlands countries
>
> Ik geef (I give) in Dutch ek gee in Afrikaans
>
> Would the same be true of ek glo -- ik geloof (I believe) bly for blijf
> (to stay or inhabit ) but the word to live (om te leef)
> does not lose its final "f"
> another irregularity?? in Afrikaans is the survival of the plural or
> infinitive form in the case of some verbs where the
> shortened verion would be expected
> ek doen instead of ik doe (I do)
> ek staan instead of ik sta (I stand)
> the verb gaan follows the same rule
>
> Perhaps my idle curiousity can be satisfied by the group.
>
> Many thanks to all who who give me great enjoyment in the discussions
> raised.
>
> John le Grange
Dear John,

In WF (West Flemish) you have also the use of infinitive forms, but it
tends
to disappear.
We also say:
Ik gaon naar huus.
Ik staon 'ier te wacht'n.
Ik zien dadde 'ier nie zitt'n.
Ik doen niemendolle meê.
'k Zij(n) weg!

groetjes,
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Is this not also the case in Mennonite Lowlands Saxon ("Plautdietsch")
and other fareastern dialects (now moribund or extinct)?

Plautdietsch:

(/doun-/) doone(n) (to do)
(/gaan-/) gohne(n) (to go)
(/staan-/) stohne(n) (to stand)

Cf. Northern Lowlands Saxon:

(/dou-/) doon ~ doun ~ daun (to do)
(/gaa-/) gahn ~ gohn ~ gaan ~ gaon (to go)
(/staa-/) stahn ~ stohn ~ staan ~ staon (to stand)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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