LL-L "Help needed" 2002.03.01 (01) [E/LS]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 1 16:06:41 UTC 2002
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L O W L A N D S - L * 01.MAR.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Andy Eagle" <andy at scots-online.org>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.02.28 (09) [E]
Ron Hahn wrote
<snip>
> Low Saxon (Low German):
> Dracht (feminine, plural _Drachten_):
> (1) burden, load
> (2) accumulated amount (e.g., honey gathered by bees)
> (3) litter (of animals)
> (4) beating (measure word; cf. German _eine Tracht Prügel_ 'a beating')
> (5) wooden bar carried across one's shoulders (usually carved to conform
> to neck and shoulders) at both ends of which heavy items can be hung
> for transport (usually from hooks and/or ropes, often pails for
> water
> or milk
> (6) two pails full (measure word)
> (7) costume, outfit (nowadays usually referring to traditional, regional
> or ethnic garb; cf. German _Tracht_)
The English cognate may be 'draft'
Scots Has:
Draucht
(1) load
(6)? two or more cartloads brought at one time
also the process of drawing water from a stream
A water channel or ditch
A scheme, plot or plan
entrails of an animal
a convulsive gasping or choking
Andy Eagle
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From: "Elsie Zinsser" <ezinsser at simpross.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.02.28 (09) [E]
Hi Lowlanders,
Ron Hahn wrote re.: Dracht (feminine, plural _Drachten_):
(1) burden, load
(2) accumulated amount (e.g., honey gathered by bees)
(3) litter (of animals)
(4) beating (measure word; cf. German _eine Tracht Prügel_ 'a beating')
(5) wooden bar carried across one's shoulders (usually carved to conform
to neck and shoulders) at both ends of which heavy items can be hung
for transport (usually from hooks and/or ropes, often pails for
water or milk
(6) two pails full (measure word)
(7) costume, outfit (nowadays usually referring to traditional, regional
or ethnic garb; cf. German _Tracht_)
As far as I know, Dutch _dracht_ and Afrikaans _drag_ have meanings 1, 3
and 7, but I would not be surprised if they conveyed the other meanings
as well.
For those interested, the Afrikaans equivalents are:
1 For example: Die donkie se drag is darem baie swaar. [More
likely to be used as: 'Die donkie dra swaar"]
2 For example: "Die perske drag lyk goed vanjaar".
3 In adjectival form: "dragtig" - pregnant.
4 For example: Hulle het 'n dragtige loesing gekry.
[Mostly used in sports now, but I am familiar with the phrase to mean a
hiding.]
5 No - "dra-paal"
6 For example: Een drag hout sal genoeg wees vir die braai.
7 For example: "Formele drag is opsioneel."
Regards
Elsie Zinsser
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From: "Reiner Brauckmann" <Reiner.Brauckmann at FernUni-Hagen.de>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.02.28 (09) [E]
> Low Saxon (Low German):
> Dracht (feminine, plural _Drachten_):
> (1) burden, load
> (2) accumulated amount (e.g., honey gathered by bees)
dao feihlt di
(2b) erste ,twedde, drüdde, veierde Dracht ( Fruchtfolge op de
Feller, drie of veier Fellerweiertschap)
> (3) litter (of animals)
> (4) beating (measure word; cf. German _eine Tracht Prügel_ 'a
> beating') (5) wooden bar carried across one's shoulders (usually
> carved to conform
> to neck and shoulders) at both ends of which heavy items can be
> hung for transport (usually from hooks and/or ropes, often pails
> for
> water
> or milk
> (6) two pails full (measure word)
> (7) costume, outfit (nowadays usually referring to traditional,
> regional
> or ethnic garb; cf. German _Tracht_)
Gued gaohn
Reiner
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From: "W!M" <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.02.28 (09) [E]
Hi,
Wim Verdoold, the Netherlands.
Dracht in Dutch has to do with dragen, to carry,
You also have dracht. Pregnancy of animals. How long takes the "dracht" of
this animal? (In that way)
And "af dracht". Like in the amount, they have to pay every month. That
has to do with the bee word too I think.
What you gain from them, what you pullout. What they have to carry over to
you.
My dictionary says, dracht has to do with to drag,. And, I my self think you
could also think about "draught".
My dialect is too much mixed with Dutch, I'm not sure about the
dracht/dragen words. There is klederdracht too in Dutch, the wearing of
traditional cloth, like in High-German tracht.
And there is Opdracht, German auftracht.
Drachtig, pregnant in animals.
Just some quick thoughts.
(Wimme uut Salland.)
Well just some ideas.
-----------
From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.02.28 (09) [E]
In message <3C7F0260.19250BFA at yahoo.com>, Lowlands-L
<sassisch at yahoo.com> writes
>In German and English I can only describe the item that _Dracht_ denotes
>under 5 above. (It is the European equivalent of the East Asian
>carrying pole, usually made from bamboo.) Are there real words for it
>(also in other Lowlands languages)? Surely, these implements used to be
>used outside Northern Germany and the Low Countries as well, also on the
>British Isles.
>
This is a yoke. It's primary meaning is the device to join up two
animals to draw a plough or vehicle (a piece of wood with curves to take
in the animal's necks, and a chain going back to the plough or vehicle).
The meaning 'frame used by a person to carry a pair of buckets' is not
recorded until about 1618 - which seems rather late.
I can ask archaeologists about their distribution over time and space,
if this would help.
I found interesting to read the Oxford English Dictionary entry on
'draw' (over 60 meanings) and the related 'draught', as there seem to
be many examples of parallel development of meaning.
With best wishes to all,
Pat
Pat Reynolds
Research Student, Department of Archaeology, University of York
--
Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
"It might look a bit messy now, but just you come back in 500 years time"
(T. Pratchett)
----------
From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: Re: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.02.28 (09) [E]
Ron wrote:
> In German and English I can only describe the item that _Dracht_ denotes
> under 5 above. (It is the European equivalent of the East Asian
> carrying pole, usually made from bamboo.) Are there real words for it
> (also in other Lowlands languages)?
In Dutch, a _Dracht_ is called a _juk_. I believe the English word is yoke.
In Zeeuws we have the form _jok_, but the word _dracht_ is also used in some
places (the Woordenboek der Zeeuwse Dialecten mentions the isles of
Walcheren, Zuid-Beveland, Tholen, St. Philipsland and a couple of villages
outside these isles).
The word _jok_ is used as a measure word in the same way Ron described it
for _Dracht_: _een jok mellek_ means two pails (about 24 liters) of milk.
_Een gank mellek_ and _een reize mellek_ are also used in this meaning. But
where _jok_ refers to the way the milk is carried, _gank_ and _reize_ refer
to the journey with the milk from eg the field to the farm (perhaps you
could translate it with the amount of milk that could be carried in one go,
so a "go" of milk).
Besides a yoke/jok/juk/dracht, I also remember hearing about a hoop being
used to keep two pails of milk or water in balance. This hoop was put on
top of the two pails and then the person who had to carried the pails,
stepped inside the hoop and just carried the pails by the handles.
regards,
Marco
----------
From: kcaldwell31 at comcast.net
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.02.28 (09) [E]
The only English word I know for what you describe as:
>(5) wooden bar carried across one's shoulders (usually carved to
conform
> to neck and shoulders) at both ends of which heavy items can be
hung
> for transport (usually from hooks and/or ropes, often pails for
water
> or milk.
would be "yoke".
Kevin Caldwell
kcaldwell31 at comcast.net
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Help needed
Thanks for all your help, Andy, Elsie, Reiner, Wim, Pat, Marco and Kevin!
So the English word is _yoke_! I half suspected it but could not find it
described in this sense in any of the books I had within easy reach. In
Northern Low Saxon (Low German) we also use _Jück_ [jYk] ~ [dZYk] or _Jöck_
[j9k] ~ [dZ9k] (neuter, plural with _-s_), but, as far as I know, only for the
kind of yoke that is put onto bovine draft animals. Alternative words are
_Klaaf_ (usually spelled _Klaaf_) [klQ:f] (masculine, plural _Klaven_
['klQ:vm=] ~ _Klaben_ ['klQ:bm=]) and _Klaven_ ['klQ:vm=] ~ _Klaben_
['klQ:bm=] (masculine, plural with _-s_). The basic meaning of _Klaav_ ~
_Klaaf_ and _Klaven_ ~ _Klaben_ is 'split(-off) chunk of wood', 'woodblock'.
Another derivative meaning of it is 'fruit bread', usually what in German is
called _Stollen_ (probably because it resembles a chunk of wood). (In the
Lower Elbe area we use the umlauted form _Klöben_ ['klø:bm=] for the latter,
both in Low Saxon and German.) Obviously, this word group is related to
English "to cleave," Low Saxon _klöven_ ~ _klöben_ 'to cleave', 'to split',
'to hack apart'.
In German you use _Joch_ [jOx] for a yoke for draft animals. But I do not
know if the carrying device used by people -- the Low Saxon _Dracht_ -- can
also be called _Joch_. Does anyone know?
The additional information you sent with your responses is very interesting,
folks. Thanks again!
I should add that Reiner, who responded in Westphalian Low Saxon, added
another meaning for _Dracht_, something like 'harvest', i.e., the produce a
field brings forth in one season. I knew this in connection with fruit trees,
a _Dracht_ being the fruit a tree produces in a year or season, but I
neglected to add that to my list. Here, of course, the basic sense, as in all
cases, is 'bearing' (> 'carrying', 'transporting', 'wearing', 'holding', etc.,
all _dragen_ or _dregen_ in Dutch and Low Saxon).
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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