LL-L "Ethnicity & nationality" 2003.01.15 (05) [E]

Wed Jan 15 21:50:10 UTC 2003

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From: Criostoir O Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.01.15 (04) [E]

Ron,

"Thus, the only thing a
British citizen would lose by becoming a citizen of another country would be
that their great-grandchildren and their offspring would not be considered
British."

Only if their overseas-born children did not activate their British
citizenship, creating a "gap" in the transmission of citizenship. It is
quite possible under the British Nationality Act 1981 for there to be "chain
activation" of British citizenship by the overseas-born for infinite
generations. (For example, A leaves Britain. B is born in, say, Australia
and acquires a British passport and gives birth to C in Australia who also
acquires a British passport. C gives birth to D in Australia who also
activates the citizenship. D gives birth in the same place and E activates
the citizenship, etc. It's almost biblical.)

Until very recently, a small group of about 250,000 British Citizens
(British Dependent Territories Citizens, British Protected Persons and
British Subjects - British Nationals (Overseas) is a different matter) were
not full British Citizens (i.e., they had not right of abode in the United
Kingdom). The Home Office has since thankfully rectified this and they all
now have the same status and rights as de jure "British Citizens" (more so,
in fact, as British Citizens do not enjoy a reciprocal right of abode in
Dependent Territories).

About 11,000 Commonwealth citizens (69% of them from Australia and New
Zealand) enter Britain each year under Grandparent Entry (the so-called
Patrial visa) to live, work and vote, although only about 1,500 of these
stay for the required four years  and become naturalised British Citizens.

But I am going somewhere with this! :)

How many Aussiedler in Germany have proficiency in, or use as a home
language, any of the Lowlands languages (e.g., Low Saxon, Plautdietsch) they
took with them in the 18th Century? All the Germans I have asked here in
Derry (mainly from the Chemnitz area) have said that hardly any Aussiedler
speak their ancestral languages any more, preferring Russian (although there
did appear to be a hint of stereotype to it all).

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

----------

From: Ian James Parsley <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language Varieties

Criostoir,

Absolutely no malice taken at all! Disagreement is
often a healthy thing. And I hope you get the
opportunity to visit SA soon, a truly beautiful and
fascinating country (my parents live there, actually).

Ron,

What you say is absolutely correct. My last trip to SA
was this last Christmas, and nearly every second
person I bumped into was/had been/intended to be a UK
resident 'to bring home some pounds' - indeed I met
one standing in front of me in a shop who was working
by complete coincidence in my own home town (Bangor,
N. Ireland, pop 40,000)! This would in large part
explain the fascination with the UK - it is actually
relevant to many people in the country at any given
moment.

Although having returned to the bitter cold from the
ideal climate of the Cape, you'd wonder why any of
them would ever consider coming here, dodgy currency
or not!!!

Best regards,

=====
------------------
Ian James Parsley
www.ianjamesparsley.net
+44 (0)77 2095 1736
JOY - "Jesus, Others, You"

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Criostóir:
> How many Aussiedler in Germany have proficiency in, or use as a home
language, any
> of the Lowlands languages (e.g., Low Saxon, Plautdietsch) they took with
them in the 18th
> Century? All the Germans I have asked here in Derry (mainly from the
Chemnitz area)
> have said that hardly any Aussiedler speak their ancestral languages any
more,
> preferring Russian (although there did appear to be a hint of stereotype
to it all).

This has long been a mystery to me.

It appears that Germany has a highly discriminatory repatriation system.
Basically, only *certain* "Germans" enjoy a relatively easy return to the
_Vaterland_.  These are, by and large, the _Aussiedler_ ("out-settlers") in
the east (vs. ordinary _Auswanderer_ 'emigrants').   We are talking about
descendants of Germans who centuries ago left the territory of what at that
time was considered Germany, specifically *eastward*.  While people who
emigrated to other places, and their descendants (if proven German-rooted),
are considered _Auslandsdeutsche_ ("Germans living abroad") and might be
referred to as _Deutsch-Amerikaner_, _Deutsch-Kanadier_,
_Deutsch-Australier_, _Deutsch-Brasilianer_, _Deutsch-Chilenen_, etc., they
do not enjoy the same, rather generous repatriation package.  According to
the latest laws, they may get German citizenship restored only if they can
prove links with Germany (such as relatives), loyalty to some measure of
German language and/or culture (whatever that may be), and sufficient
finances to sustain them in Germany without public assistance.  In contrast,
"German" minorities of Eastern Europe, especially of the former Soviet
Union, do not need to pass as stringent a test and do not have to prove
financial self-sufficiency (being assumed too poor, while those elsewhere
are expected to be wealthy).

I have never begrudged the latter this perk, even though apparently many
pass as "German" who are not and who may have had one or two German
ancestors in the distant past or who were merely *considered* German in the
east.  Some German-born Germans do begrudge them that and refer to them
stereotypically as _Russen_ ("Russians") -- and not very many of these
"Russians" arrive with any German language proficiency, usually continuing
their Russian culture and language in Germany (and I think that's just fine
too).  However, exactly what criteria are used and how they are being used
to determine if someone is "German" eludes me.  Does it include any of the
minority languages and cultures?  My guess is that Lowlands Saxon ("Low
German") would pass the test because it used to be considered (and is still
considered, at least privately) part of German.  Frisian might pass the test
too, given sufficient explanations and exact geographic data.  Sorbian (a
West Slavonic language unique to Germany)?  Hmmm ...  I think an English-
and Sorbian-speaking person whose ancestors emigrated from Germany to Texas,
for instance, would have a lot of explaining and pushing to do and would
need to show some sort of ancient birth certificates.   A Romany speaker
with no German proficiency but ancestry in Germany?  I dunno ... It would be
hard without papers to prove it.   But then again, perhaps I am
unjustifiably underestimating the knowledge, flexibility and openmindedness
of today's average German immigration official.   I hope I am.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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