LL-L "Lowlands-L" 2003.01.30 (09) [E/LS/German]

Thu Jan 30 22:55:11 UTC 2003

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Wolter Zigterman <zigterman at ontad.nl>
Subject: Vroag over het grunnens

Moi,

Ik kiek nou ain poar doagn noar dizze site en ik mis aigenlik een grunniger
versie. Is dei der nait of heurt dat bie de Nedersaksische groep? Ik bin
gain toal wetenschapper, moar wel intereseert in mien aigen dialekt woarvan
ik mark dat et steeds minder sproken word, net of minsen zich der veur
schoamen of zo!

Grouten,

Wolter Zigterman

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From: Michael Daly <michael.daly at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Software" 2003.01.26 (03) [E/Danish/German]

Dear Ron alias Reinhard, (auch stellvertretend für die ganze Gemeinde),

At one point, I was sorely tempted to leave your mailing list, in order to
avoid being constantly inundated with emails. However, I learned to read
them quickly, to learn from them and to delete those which - at least for
me - appeared to have less value.

Now, the response to my perhaps slightly simpleminded query on character
sets and writing phonetically was so overwhelming, that I am committed and
will probably remain on your mailing list forever.

Thanks for explaining your "Ron" name. I now understand that it is not a
"nickname" for "Ronxxx" or similar Germanic names, but is a Jewish name (or
at least noun) in its own right.

I had a similar experience in respect of a Kurdish-German fellow whose name
was "Sam" and definitely not short for "Samuel" or "Samson”, but was
actually an Iranian (Persian? Median? Kurdish?)name in its own right.

Was nun die Website selbst angeht, anfangs nahm ich an, dass sie
hauptsaechlich für Niederdeutsch-Sprecher gedacht war. Vielleicht inklusive
„nederlands-prater“, als verwandte "Dialektiker".

Looking at the abbreviations for languages in the mail header seems to
delimit "Lowlands" to the North German-Netherlands coast (Saxon, Frisian,
Zeeuws and their English dialectic offspring - Northumbrian, Scots-English,
but not Danish dialects, northern French dialects or celtic dialects).

Innerhalb dieser Grenzen ist Niederlaendisch besonders interessant, da es
sich hier um eine niederdeutsche Sprache handelt, die sich - ausserhalb
Skandinaviens - aufgrund der unabhängigen Staatlichkeit der
nord-niederlaendsichen Provinzen - zu einer vollwertigen Hochsprache
entwickelt hat.

Man könnte sich eine Science-Fiction Novelle vorstellen, worin sich die
norddeutschen Laender den Niederlaendern in ihrem Befreiungskrieg gegen
Hapsburg-Spanien unterstuetzen, ansschliessend mit den Kern-Provinzen der
Niederlande aus dem "Heiligen Roemischen Reich“ austreten und sich mit
diesen zu einem riesigen "Verenigden Provincien" zusammenschliessen, wodurch
sie den 30-jährigen Krieg verpassen und, nach der Trennung mit
Zuid-Nederland, ein riesiges protestantisches niederdeutsches Land werden,
das eine einheitliche "Hochsprache" entwickelt, die eine Synthese aller
Dialekte zwischen Seeland und Hinter-Pommern wird!

Keep up the good work, thank you and others who responded for the immediate
and helpful hints and, just to expand the borders a bit, "au revoir et bonne
chance".

Michael (Mike) Daly

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lowlands-L

Welcome to the List, Wolter and Mike!  And thanks for writing.

Wolter, apparently we do have speakers of Groningen and other Lowlands Saxon
dialects of the Netherlands in our midst.  However, so far they have been
_koenkeloerers_
("lurkers").  Hopefully your inquiry will entice a few of them out of
hiding.

Mike:

> Was nun die Website selbst angeht, anfangs nahm ich an, dass sie
> hauptsaechlich für Niederdeutsch-Sprecher gedacht war. Vielleicht
> inklusive „nederlands-prater“, als verwandte "Dialektiker".

Mike, Lowlanders, based on my observations this is a fairly
widespread pattern, caused, I believe, by a combination of inattention and
wishful thinking (though probably no in your particular case).  It doesn't
matter how clear and concise we try to make the information at our website,
people will only skim through it and fill in the blanks with their wishes.
It is clearly stated which language varieties are included and what the List
does and does not endeavor doing.  Why, I even get messages complaining
about extraneous information (e.g., "But I am only interested in Afrikaans,
not in Scots and stuff!").  Sharing information about individual language
varieties is a secondary purpose of the List, its main purpose being to
bring these particular language varieties, their speakers and their students
together to identify and celebrate their differences as well as their common
heritage.  Note that this is not "Germanic-L".  The group of linguistic and
cultural varieties we focus on does not include German, Yiddish and North
Germanic, though we often mention them.

To cut down on the number of messages (but not on the overall volume)
you can request a digest form.  You can invoke this yourself (after
consulting the manual), or you could ask me to change your settings
accordingly.  The following are the settings I can change for individual
subscribers.  You can request them, and I ask you to be specific which ones
you need.

Subscription type:
       Regular [NODIGEST]
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Miscellaneous:
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Note that the last setting (NOMAIL) means that you can now take a leave of
absence without having to leave and resubscribe.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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