LL-L "Sayings" 2004.04.21 (07) [E]
Lowlands-L
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Wed Apr 21 16:04:24 UTC 2004
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L O W L A N D S - L * 21.APR.2004 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: D. Hoying <stfranc at bright.net>
Subject: translation
Dear Lowlanders,
I joined this list about a month ago, and have been learning quite a bit.
The depths of the discussions on this list - concerning syntax, lexicon,
grammar, etc. are far beyond my comprehension. I was hoping that by my
reading of the discussions that I might be able to pick up some information
about my own Plattdüütsk heritage. The predominance of my ancestors are from
Oldenburger Münsterland and many of them settled here in west-central Ohio
some 160 years ago. The Plattdüütsk that was spoken here changed little over
that time in pronunciation and meaning in comparison to that spoken in their
native Oldenburg.
Sadly, the Platt is quickly disappearing, as the generation that spoke it
yet as their first language is dying off. As is the case of my mother, who
did not learn English until she went to school (c.1930), and even though her
parents were born in Ohio. The town children presumed to be a bit more
sophisticated and called the country children like my mother, Buurnklomper.
Yet, in the past 20 years, with a resurgemce of an historical awareness, the
Platt speakers were held in great respect by these very same detractors!
There are very few in my generation (* c.1956) who yet speak it occassionly.
I know a variety of words, but cannot really converse in it. Except, in my
dreams, I do at times speak Platt, but upon awaking, the meaning of what I
said in my dream escapes me!
With my mother's help, I have been attempting to record some of the sayings
that were used here in hopes of preserving some of them, lest they all be
forgotten. I have no knowledge of linguistics, etc. as all of you do, so I
was hoping that you may give me a little guidance with your expertise. My
mother has come up recently with a couple of sayings, of which I am trying
to find the "correct" spelling and translation of.
1) This one was said when someone passed gas:
Een been bu!
Weche stinket nu?
Dat dest Du!
The first line seems to be nonsense words, but I think that originally it
had some sort of meaning. This is where I need help. Using a Platt
dictionary from Oldenburger Münsterland, I came up with:
Een beern Bö!
The word been might be beern or beiern meaning lauten / loud; and bu might
be Bö meaning a Windstoß.
So that a possible translation could be:
One loud blow! OR
A loud one blew!
Who stinks now?
Now stinks who?
That is thou!
That is you!
How far off am I on this one?
2) When thunderheads were seen in the west, indicating a coming storm, the
saying was:
Dat stieg in de Wessen.
That is high in the west.
I grew up in a household with my maternal grandparents (Bessmaam un
Besspaap), along with two bachelor farmer great uncles, Heinie and Joe. All
that I heard when growing up was Platt, because that is all that they spoke
amongst themselves. Some of it was quite colorful, particularly when playing
cards (either Euchre or Schappskopp). When speaking about pigs my great
uncles used the term "Pooey" / "Puuhee" as in: de lüttken Pooey - the little
pigs. They also used it to call the pigs, saying: Pooey, Pooey, Pooey. From
whence does this come? Is there any connection with the Pu in the Puvaogel?
A favorite saying of my paternal grandmother was:
Pass up! fur de lop de Kärken Düren doan, de kriegt
di bei de arse!
Watch out, for they who run the church doors down,
they get you by the ass!
Not exactly PC, but when said outloud, is is quite musical. My grandmother
used this particulary for two old pious maidenladies who in their store
squeezed out every penny they could from a customer.
I have a number of other sayings that I will not include here. I am also
attempting to come up with a wordlist of Platt words that maybe were
peculiar to west-central Ohio. I have only a list of a few.
Bäckhuus = Pit House , the outhouse / privy, perhaps
derived from the Latin
baccus, meaning cistern, pool, or
pit. Some say that it means
the "house in the back" but
something in the back, behind, or
beyond would use the word achter in
Platt would it not?
Stinkende Hofaart = Stinking Stuck-up, the name for the
marigold flower.
Wunderpäpper = Miracle Pepper, to describe the spice
Allspice.
Schullkrüüper = Shed Creeper, a name for the turtle,
hence
Schullkrüüper Soppen = Turtle Soup,
the German-American
national soup. This is what my
father always called it.
Askenpüüster = Ash Blower, to designate the thurifer or
incense bearer at
Mass.
Wietkieker = Far Looker, the television, a word my
mother's family used.
Were any of these words used in other places?
Whatever help, suggestions, comments, etc. you may be able to offer me would
be greatly appreciated. Hol di föchtig!
Sincerely,
David A. Hoying
stfranc at bright.net
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Sayings
Moin, David!
Wilkamen up Lowlands-L!
I am pleased to know that you are interested in what is going on here. I
can only encourage you to ask if you do not understand something and think
it may be important to you. We try to keep most discussions on an
average-person level of understanding.
I think it is wonderful that Lowlands Saxon (Low German) is still known in
your part of Ohio. (Exactly which part is that?) It would be nice to see
to it that it lingers some more, is perhaps even revived. People like your
mother should be seen as valuable resources and should be encouraged to
share as much as possible of their linguistic and cultural heritage (even if
there should be relatively heavy emphasis on digestive matter ...).
David, I really hope that you will record as much material as possible. It
would be nice if you could make it available, for instance on the Web. I
for one would be happy to help you with consultation, and perhaps other
Lowlanders would too. This would not only serve your specific community but
indeed the entire language community and the community of those that are
interested in it. Please bear in mind that North Germans are incredibly
ignorant when it comes to LS and North German transplants overseas.
Knowledge about Mennonite LS (Plautdietsch) seems to be increasing, in part
because of "re-migration" from the former Soviet Union to Germany.
Non-Mennonite LS dialects of America are still virtually unknown in Europe.
> 1) This one was said when someone passed gas:
> Een been bu!
> Weche stinket nu?
> Dat dest Du!
> The word been might be beern or beiern meaning lauten / loud; and bu
might be
> Bö meaning a Windstoß.
You may be right there. Nowadays, North Saxon dialects tend to use _bayern_
(<beiern>) in the sense of 'to ring (in a booming way)', usually with
reference to church bells (e.g., _Dey karkenklokken bayert (~ bayern)_ 'The
church bells are ringing'). _Weche_ is 'which one'. (So, 'Which one's
stinking now?')
I assume that _dest_ is '(thou) didst' ('(you) did'); so _Dat dest du_ 'It's
you who did'.
> Dat stieg in de Wessen.
> That is high in the west.
I think that should be _Dat stygt in dey westen_ (<Dat stiegt in de
Wessen>), literally "It's rising in the west'. (Dative _dey westen_ vs _den
westen_ or _dat west_ ~ _'t west_ is typical of the farwestern dialects,
including those of the Oldenburg area.)
> Bäckhuus = Pit House , the outhouse / privy, perhaps
derived from the Latin
> baccus, meaning cistern, pool, or
pit. Some say that it means
> the "house in the back" but
something in the back, behind, or
> beyond would use the word achter
in Platt would it not?
Yes, but _bak_ (<back>) in the sense of 'back' does exist in some dialects.
It could also be derived from _bekhuus_ (<Bäckhuus>) "bake house," having
come to mean, as a eupemism or taboo replacement, "outhouse" (bearing in
mind that kitchens and baking ovens used to be separate from the main
building).
> Wietkieker = Far Looker, the television, a word my
mother's family used.
This must be an American invention, based on "television." In Germany it is
_veyrnseyen_ (<Feernsehen> < German _Fernsehen_), or, for the "box,"
_veyrnseyer_ (<Feernseher> < German _Fernseher_), _TV_ (_Tee-Fau_), or
(nicknamed) _Puuschenkino_ ("slipper cinema"), in the Netherlands
_televisie_.
Hold Dy vuchtig (Hool Di fuchtig!)
Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron
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