LL-L "Etymology" 2004.04.21 (08) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: marco [evenhuiscommunicatie] <marco at evenhuiscommunicatie.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.04.21 (01) [E]

Roger Hondshoven wrote:

> A Dutch word kil meaning "small running stream" is unknown to me.

It is in every dictionary: "kil: 1. waterdiepte tussen hoge oevers (...) 2.
stroombed, rivierbed (...) 3. zeer diepe plek in zee".
Furthermore, I recall waterways such as the 'Dordtse Kil', the 'Waardse Kil'
the nature reserve 'Hurwenense Kil' along the river Waal and the village of
Sluiskil in Zeeland (Zld: 'Sluuskille').
In Zeelandic, the word is _kille_. But there is also the pronounciation
_gille_ or _hille_ in some places.

Glenn Simpson:

> Interesting stuff - gooi & 'hoy' do seem to be linked.
> The full translation would be: 'hoy me thi baal' or
> 'hoy is thi baal'. Havercake in broad Northumbrian
> would be 'hevorcyek'.

Maybe it interesting to know that in Zeeland and West-Flanders (as well as
in a large part of East-Flanders) the Dutch word _gooien_ ('to throw') is
pronounced _hooie(n)_. Glenn's "hoy me thi baal" is "hooi me de bal 's" in
Zeelandic.
Glenn, where does the _is_ stand for in "hoy is thi baal"? Can it be
copmared with _'s_ or _eens_ in Dutch en Zeelandic (Zld: "hooi me die bal
's" in W-Flemish they usually use _een keer_: "hooi me die bal(le) e kji")?
_Havercake_ would be _haeverkoeke_ in Zeelandic, with a silent h, the _ae_
pronounced as the 'ai' in 'flair' and the _oe_ as in Englis 'oo'. In
Zeelandic the last -e, which is silent in modern English, is pronounced (as
a schwa).

For your information, in general almost every g is pronounced as an h in
Zeelandic and West-Flemish (except in certain positions) and the h is
silent. For reasons of convenience, most of the time the g/h is spelled as a
g. The silent h is spelled as a ' (apostrophe) in Zeeland and usually just
as an h in West-Flanders.

Regards,

Marco Evenhuis

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From: Gustaaf Van Moorsel <gvanmoor at aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.04.21 (01) [E]

Roger Hondshoven <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be> wrote:

> A Dutch word kil meaning "small running stream" is unknown to me.

I don't think it is used like that at all anymore, but it
survives in names of rivers, e.g. 'Dordtse Kil'.

Gustaaf

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From: Liza du Plooy <lizaduplooy at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.04.20 (08) [E]


Gustaaf, you wrote:

I can confirm both the words 'bakvis' and 'oubaas'. 'Bakvis'
as a term for a young, giggly girl, aged 14 - 17 or so, I as-
sociate with my mother's generation (born 1915), so it must
have been prevalent in the late 20's and 30's. It has comp-
letely disappeared now as far as I know.

It has not disappeared at all, in fact, my mom still tells me not to act
like a bakvissie if I get giggly. All through my 14 to 17 stage she had to
remind me not to be a bakvissie, and she was only born in the 1950's.
I've never heard the boyscout use of oubaas (me being a girl). The only use
I am familiar with is like Ron said, a term of respect for an older person.

Liza du Plooy

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