LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.09 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 09.AUG.2004 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Berlinerisch

How does Berlin fit in with the High/Low German divide? It looks from maps
as if it should be in the "Low" region but I have read that when Prussia
ceased to be a backwater there were major inflows of people from elsewhere
in Germany and particularly from Bavaria. I saw somewhere else that the
result was to produce something resembling Ostmitteldeutsch. Does anybody
have a clear picture they could pass on?

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Pennsylvania Dutch

I've just read Bill Bryson's "Mother Tongue", which must be one of the worst
books on the development of English ever written. I'd be happy to debate
this if anyone's interested but here I want to put one question.
Bryson says that Pennsylvania Dutch is an English dialect. I think he's
confusing two different things. Pennsylvania Dutch proper is truly a German
dialect stemming, I think, from the Mittelrhein region. But its speakers
also speak a variety of English which is heavily affected by PD, the
substrate language. This contains the "comic" turns of phrase which Bryson
mentions. Is this right, and is there a separate name for the English
dialect which avoids the terminological confusion?

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Frisian

Bill Bryson quotes "the linguistic historian Charlton Laird" as opining that
many Frisian speakers "can still read the medieval epic Beowulf 'almost at
sight' ". BB also thinks that English speakers can "begin to pick their way
through a great deal of abstruse-looking [Old English] text" if they spend
half an hour learning "the difference in pronunciation and spelling".

I seem to recall that a few years ago we debated the similarities between
Modern Frisian and Modern English - the "buter, brea en griene tsiis"
argument.

It seems to me extremely improbable that Frisians can understand both Old
English and Modern English and highly improbable that they can understand
Beowulf, which has all the special problems which poems generally present.
I've looked at the simpler passages in Sweet's Old English primer and have
grave doubts as to what sense a modern English speaker can make of them
simply on the basis of a superficial knowledge of spelling changes and
pronunciation.

Does anyone know of any careful studies of these issues?

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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