LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.23 (08) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.AUG.2004 (08) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Troy Sagrillo <meshwesh at bigfoot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.23 (04) [E]
on 23.08.2004 6.59 PM, Peter Snepvangers <snepvangers at optushome.com.au>
wrote:

> I am intrigued with the English word for lake and the various spellings
used
> in languages. I wonder if the Limburgs / Dutch / Afrikaans / Frisian
> etymology of the spelling as "meer" could be explained to me. It seem
> strange to me because you can use the word to mean lake but you can also
use
> it to mean more and more (meer en meer), or no longer (niet meer).
> The German and Danish words seem to be similar
> See (German)
> So (Danish)
> The English and Scots words seem to be similar
> Lacus (Latin)
> Loch (Scots)
> Lake (English)

Scots is a loanword from Gaelic "loch" (also occurring in Hibernian English
as "lough"), though it is ultimately related to English "lake" but only on
an Indo-European level.

English also has "mere" meaning "(small) lake, pond, marsh"; cf. Old English
"mere" "lake, pond, pool, cistern"; Irish Gaelic "muir" 'sea'; Lain "mare"
'sea'; etc.

Dutch "meer" is cognate with English "more" (Old English "ma:ra", "ma:re")

Cheers,

Troy

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From: Kevin Caldwell <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.23 (04) [E]

> Hello Ron/Reinhard and Lowlanders,
> I am intrigued with the English word for lake and the various spellings
> used
> in languages. I wonder if the Limburgs / Dutch / Afrikaans / Frisian
> etymology of the spelling as "meer" could be explained to me. It seem
> strange to me because you can use the word to mean lake but you can also
> use
> it to mean more and more (meer en meer), or no longer (niet meer).
> The German and Danish words seem to be similar
> See (German)
> So (Danish)
> The English and Scots words seem to be similar
> Lacus (Latin)
> Loch (Scots)
> Lake (English)
> How is the word written in Lowlands Saxon?
> Cheers
> Peter Snepvangers
> snepvangers at optushome.com.au

Note that English also has the word "mere" for a small lake, pond, or marsh,
as well as "tarn" for a mountain lake.  Both of these are rarely used and
show up mainly in crossword puzzles.

Kevin Caldwell
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From: Fred van Brederode <f.vanbrederode at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.23 (07) [E]

John Baskind wrote:

> ten allen tijde = alwaeys

Deze uitdrukking schijnt gespeld te moeten worden als: "te allen tijden",
dus zonder de 'n' achter te
De schrijfwijze komt voort uit lang vergeten naamvallen. Misschien dat
anderen van de lijst weten hoe dat zo komt.

The correct spelling seems to be: "te allen tijden"
It must have something to do with long forgotten cases. Perhaps someone else
of the list knows why this spelling is correct.

Groeten,
Fred van Brederode

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From: Stella en Henno <stellahenno at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.23 (04) [E]

> From: Peter Snepvangers <snepvangers at optushome.com.au>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Hello Ron/Reinhard and Lowlanders,
> I am intrigued with the English word for lake and the various spellings
used
> in languages. I wonder if the Limburgs / Dutch / Afrikaans / Frisian
> etymology of the spelling as "meer" could be explained to me. It seem
> strange to me because you can use the word to mean lake but you can also
use
> it to mean more and more (meer en meer), or no longer (niet meer).
> The German and Danish words seem to be similar
> See (German)
> So (Danish)
> The English and Scots words seem to be similar
> Lacus (Latin)
> Loch (Scots)
> Lake (English)
> How is the word written in Lowlands Saxon?
> Cheers
> Peter Snepvangers
> snepvangers at optushome.com.au

There are a few words here that have sort of merged in some places.
There are some old Indo-European words that have successors in modern
Germanic languages, like "meer" in Dutch, which is "mar" in West Frisian.
This is related to Latin "mare", and forms like "mor" in Celtic languages.
Also there is a water word "lek"/"laak" etc, which exists in water names
like the name of the river Lek in the Netherlands, and place names like
Laakwerd and Laaksum in Frisia (in the Netherlands), which derive from laak
= see/mar/sompe/poel (according to my copy of "Toponimen en toponimyske
eleminten yn Fryslân"), and laak = Dutch sloot/laagte in West Flemish as
well. So this form seems common Germanic as well. It is related to English
"(to) leak", and Celtic (Gaelic) "loch", from which the Scots word is
borrowed. Also Latin lacus is related. A derived meaning "landgrens" (from
"sloot" > boundary) is also present in dialects.
The word "sea", West Frisian "see" (North Frisian forms include "siie", or
"sii" or "sia" or "see"), Dutch "zee" (with derived forms (historically)
"zeeuw" (from the oblique case)) and German "See" all derive from some
pre-Germanic language (probably) as it occurs only in (West-)Germanic and is
supposedly taken over from the original inhabitants of the lowlands areas
(before the Indo-European tribes arrived).

Regards

Henno Brandsma

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