LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.05 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 06.FEB.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Tom Maguire <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.04 (02) [E]

> From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
> Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.26 (08) [E]
>
> Begin doorgestuurd bericht:
>
>>burgdal32admin heeft op dinsdag, 3 feb 2004 om 18:07 (Europe/Brussels)
>>het volgende geschreven:
>>
>>
>>>>From: Tom Maguire <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
>>>>Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.26 (01) [E]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>So the question is, do other latine languages have such a way to
>>>>>express
>>>>>future or is French the only to have it. In this case, it might be
>>>>>one
>>>>
>>>>more
>>>>
>>>>>feature of Frankish influence on French which makes it the "most
>>>>>germanic
>>>>>of the latine languages" as i read it in a book about evolution of
>>>>>the
>>>>>French.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers
>>>>>Frédéric Baert
>>>>
>>>>Hello Frederic and All,
>>>>
>>>>In  response to the Latin language question of proximate Future,
>>>>Spanish
>>>>has the formula "Voy a ir" which coincides with the French "Je vais y
>>>>aller." to express future. Curiously enough the Catalan expression is
>>>>"Vaig anar-hi." which means "I went", not "I am going to go.", as
>>>>expected. I believe that the Roman/Latin language Empire was much
>>>>more
>>>>imposing than any other of the same epoch and that basic influence
>>>>ran
>>>>from Latin to Germanic and not inversely.
>>>>
>>>>Within these postings on "Morphology" is there an underlying
>>>>desire/ideology to seek the Germanic influence on Latin?
>>>>Given that Germania and Scotland were the only 2 areas that did not
>>>>completely succumb to Roman influence in Northern Europe, is it
>>>>really
>>>>believable that the non-latin dialects would affect the latin
>>>>dialects
>>>>in their tenses forms?
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Tom
>>
>>>Hi Tom
>>>There could  be a "desire" as you write here above, but i don't think
>>>there is. I have to mentione that there is a 500 year(and more) old
>>>desire to connect everything with a French/Latin influence. When
>>>somebody even mentiones a German influence he is already 'suspected
>>>of imperialisme" . In the birth of the French Language, the Frank
>>>(old-Flemish) influence can not be underestimated, but has been for
>>>meany centuries. And yes i know that it was the other way around in
>>>the centuries to follow.
>>>Old  Flanders (probably the original old Germania) was also not too
>>>influenced by the Roman empire hence the continuing of the German and
>>> later the  Frankish language. Look at a map  and you will find
>>>hughes numbers of  placenames in France with a German origine, up to
>>>the Loire district and even further with language islands into Spain.
>>>One example: What could one say of the origine of the word "Les
>>>Landes" in the flat lands near Bordeaux?
>>>I think there is a lot of work to do in France with people wo know
>>>French and German languages.
>>>Groetjes
>>>luc vanbrabant
>>>oekene

Yes, not to mention the country of the Norsemen, La Normandie, or
Britanny whose language is of Celtic origin, or Alsace-Lorraine which
has a Germanic dialect. The Basque country, straddling the Pyrenees, may
have a language of Eastern origins (Sanscrit?). Big country, France, and
maybe not so Latin as supposed.

Your location of Germania in Flanders is interesting. I had always
imagined it as bordering the Rhine, for some reason. I think I got the
picture from Tacitus.

The "Germanic language islands" in Spain is an intriguing pointer. Any
more info. on that?

Regards,

Tom
--
Carpe Diem.
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Tom:

> The Basque country, straddling the Pyrenees, may
> have a language of Eastern origins (Sanscrit?).

As a non-Lowlandic aside, Basque is most definitely not related to Sanskrit,
the latter of which is an Indo-European language.  People have tried to link
Basque with all sorts of possible and impossible language families, and none
of it pans out.  I suppose it's hard for folks to accept that there are
language isolates, languages that cannot be assigned to groups and families.
Basque, a language isolate and thus now representing a family of its own,
could well be a remnant of an otherwise extinct family, a remnant that
survived in a non-Indo-European enclave (probably a fraction of its earlier
territory) due to the land having been less desirable to the various
Indo-European-speaking "invaders."  This sort of thing is most likely true
of various language isolates in the Caucasus as well.  Among other language
isolates there are Ainu (Hokkaido, Japan; Sakhalin and Kuril in Siberia),
Zuñi (New Mexico, USA), Burushaski (Hunza-Nagar and Yasin of Gilgit,
Pakistan) and Gilyak (Sakhalin, Siberia).

I have a feeling that Basque influenced the Romance languages of Spain at
least phonologically (e.g., length distinction of <-r>, <-r->, <r-> and
<rr>).

I find it fascinating to think (or assume) that many of the differences
between the Germanic languages (including the Lowlands languages) are likely
to be due to not only to Celtic substrates in some regions but also to
earlier non-European languages about which we know nothing and probably will
never know anything.  Who were the builders of those ancient rock monuments
and dolmens of Britain and the Continental Lowlands (including parts of
Denmark), and what did they speak?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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