LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.19 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 19.JUL.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.19 (01) [E]

Dear Ron & All,

 Subject: Etymology

> > East Brabant 'nörk' "grumbler, grumpy and unfriendly person"

> I wonder if this one is related to German _nörgeln_ 'to grumble', 'to
> complain', 'to criticize' (which is attested only since the 17th century).

We, in Afrikaans, use the word 'nors' for one who is surly, crusty,
cantankerous & a whole lot more besides. I thought it had something to do
with our experiences at the hands of Norsemen, (See Aegil's Saga, raiding in
the Netherlands)

> > Rivers that are called "Roer" (and the like) get their names because
they areswift-flowing, cf. "roeren" (D),  > >"rühren" (G), "to stir" (E),
and "hrôr" (Old English), meaning "movement".

> Lowlands Saxon (Low German) _röyren_ (<röhren> [rø:3`n] ~ [ry:3`n]) 'to
> stir', 'to move'.

> The _Herkunftsduden_ (which I do not entirely trust when it comes to
> non-German items) gives Old English _hroe^ran_ (ligature oe with a
macron).
> Can anyone think of any Modern English and/or Scots derivation of this?

We have this from the Old English poem, 'Ardstapa' - The Wanderer, line 4
Hreren mid hondum    hrimcealde sae
(Row with [my] hands    rime-cold sea)
 but 'roar' is a word that originally belongs to water, as in the psalm,
PSALM 46, 3 {King James}
'Though the waters thereof roar, & be troubled,'

In Afrikaans we say 'roei' for row; 'roer' for stir & move

Yrs sincerely,
Mark

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Dag, Mark!

>  but 'roar' is a word that originally belongs to water, as in the psalm,
> PSALM 46, 3 {King James}
> 'Though the waters thereof roar, & be troubled,'

I take "to roar" to belong to a different group of apparently
onomatopoetically derived cognates: Old English _rārian_, Middle Saxon
_rāren_ ~ _rēren_ > Modern Saxon _raren_ ~ _reren_ (<rahren> ~ <rohren> ~
<rehren>), Middle Dutch _reeren_, Old German _rērēn_ > Middle German _rēren_
> Modern German _röhren_ (of male deer during the rut), apparently related
to Slavic words like Russian раять _rajat'_ 'to sound (loudly)' and
Indo-Aryan words such as Sanskrit रायित _rāyati_ '(he/she/it) barks'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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