LL-L "Language contacts" 2004.06.05 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 05.JUN.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language contacts" [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language contacts
>
> Thanks a lot, Sandy.  This is really interesting.  (And nice to know that
> I'm not suddenly alone on this list.)
>
> For the benefit of everyone (including myself), below are a few
> finger-spelling-related links:

Some comments on these:

By far the best British fingerspelling site I've seen is at:

http://www.jimcromwell.mcmail.com/BSL/spell.htm

Click on "Expressive Fingerspelling" or "Receptive Fingerspelling" to see
two viewpoints.

> Scottish (?):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/schottisch.htm

This is just British fingerspelling - perhaps a little archaic. The "C" is
spelled with the wrong hand - a common beginners' mistake! It may be that it
once was done like that, though. Certainly the "D" used to be spelled the
other way round.

> Irish (?):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/irland.htm

No need for the question mark, Ron! It is indeed Irish fingerspelling, used
all over Catholic Ireland to sign English words within Irish Sign Language.

> Australian:
> http://www.wadeaf.org.au/auslan.shtml#fingerspelling
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/faaustral.htm
>
> New Zealand:
> http://www.deaf.co.nz/fingerspelling.html
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/neuseeland.htm

Both the same as the British system, then.

> American (including Anglo-Canadian?):
> http://where.com/scott.net/asl/abc.html
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fausa.htm

Yes, the "American" in "American Sign Language" refers to all of the
English-speaking areas of North America.

> German:
> http://www.kidsweb.de/schule/zeichen/fingerz.htm
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/deutschland.htm

I believe fingerspelling isn't very popular in Germany - German signers are
much more likely to sign a German word by making a lip pattern and
supporting sign, (such as a classifier, I imagine) to indicate it.

> Alternative, after Hironymus Lorm ("Lormenalfabet"),
> apparently with similarities to the British and Scandinavian systems:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/lorm.htm

Interesting! This looks like it may have been developed from the original
Dalgrano's Glove. It might be a clue to my question about Norwegian
"alternative" fingerspelling.

> Dutch (Netherlands):
> http://www.dovenschap.nl/main.php?sid=27&cat=vingerspelling

This, and French, Savoyarde and American fignerspelling I've seen, are
clearly variations of the same alphabet, probably originating in the school
for the deaf in Paris.

> hand-on-hand method:
> http://www.dovenschap.nl/main.php?sid=27&cat=vingerspelling%20op%20hand
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~hverdonk/vingerspellen.html

This looks rather like the one-handed system but using the other hand as a
base. What puzzles me is that the left hand is the active hand in these
diagrams. Are they based on a diagram drawn by a left-hander??

> Belgian (Non-Romance?):
> http://gebaren.ugent.be/
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fabelgien.htm

Again, very much like the French alphabet.

> Danish:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fadanemark.htm

Also modelled on the French.

> Norwegian:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fanorwe.htm

This one is also basically the French - indeed, I've seen wider variation
within France! Neither the Norwegians nor the Danes fingerspell much - they
make up new signs as soon as possible, to avoid it. This may be because the
French system fails to cater for their vowels properly.

> Swedish:
> http://student.educ.umu.se/~anaflk00/udt16h02/handalfabetet.htm

The Swedish is very different - and indeed looks very different from the
other systems in it's general execution. It's much smoother and prettier to
watch (whereas American fingerspelling is just a blur to the uninitiated!).

> Icelandic:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/island.htm

A much-altered version of the French?

> French (including Belgian and French-Canadian?):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fafrankr.htm

I don't know whether American or French fignerspelling is used in Quebecois
Sign Language but the French and American alphabets are similar anyway.

> Tanzanian:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/tansania.htm

French again!

> Italian:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/italien.htm

Slightly modified French.

> Spanish (Spain, including Catalan and Galician?):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/faspanien.htm

Again, modified French - strange because the Portuguese fingerpelling I've
seen gave French signers a lot of difficulty.

> Mexican:
> Costa-Rican:
> Paraguayan:
> Uruguayan:
> Venezuelan:
> Chilean:
> Argentinian:

Modified French again!

> Portuguese (Portugal):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/portugal.htm

Yes, I knew Portugeuse was somewhat different, though still based on the
French (unless the letters of the Roman alphabet suggest identical
handshapes sometimes?).

> Portuguese (Brazil):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fabrasil.htm

But this is again much closer to the French, so perhaps the South American
systems came from North America?

> Romanian:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/romanisch.htm

Modified French.

> Serbo-Croatian:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/yugoslawien.htm

Even their Cyrillic seems based on the French!

> Polish:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/polen.htm

Very heavily modified French.

> Russian:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/russisch.htm
> Greek:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fagreece.htm

Well, the basic idea seems to be French!

> Finnish:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fafinland.htm

French!

> Arabic (Egypt):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/faagypten.htm

Not much French left there!

> Hebrew:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/israel.htm

Seems like modified French again - Roman alphabet shapes for the Hebrew
letters.

> Ethiopian (only Amharic? Also for Tigrinya?):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/faatiop.htm

Something completely different at last! Has Israeli fingerpelling borrowed
from this alphabet as well as the French?

> Indian (all languages?):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/faindien.htm

Indians, like Portuguese, seem to have very flexible hands!

> Indonesian (only Bahasa Indonesia?):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/indonesien.htm

This looks like very old British fingerspelling, since modified in random
ways and also by the influence of the French (say, Dutch?) alphabet. It's a
mixture of old two-handed and one handed alphabets!

> Filipino (only for Tagalog, or others as well?):
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/philipinen.htm

French!

> Thai:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fathai.htm

That's an alphabet and a half!

> Korean:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fakorea.htm

Not French at all!

> Japanese:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/japan.htm

I bet they don't use that much!

> Chinese:
> Mainland: http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fachina.htm

French with many additions.

> Elsewhere: http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/fahongkong.htm

French.

> Phonemic System:
> http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/PMS.htm

Cued speech?

> International Sign Lingua Franca:
> http://www.innerspace.be/vingerspelling/index_off_line_en.htm

So you're OK there, if you know the French!  :)

> This seems like a nice selection for some comparison and research.

Indeed!

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language contacts

Sandy,

> > This seems like a nice selection for some comparison and research.
>
> Indeed!

> > Alternative, after Hironymus Lorm ("Lormenalfabet"),
> > apparently with similarities to the British and Scandinavian systems:
> > http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/lorm.htm
>
> Interesting! This looks like it may have been developed from the original
> Dalgrano's Glove. It might be a clue to my question about Norwegian
> "alternative" fingerspelling.

Great! I'm pleased to have been of service.  BTW, the correct spelling is
"Hieronymus."

> > Icelandic:
> > http://www.michaelszczepanski.de/island.htm
>
> A much-altered version of the French?

Probably an adaptation (to the larger number of letters) of the Danish
system, which, as you said, is based on the French system.  This would make
sense given that Iceland (like Norway) used to be a Danish colony and used
to use Danish (and Danish education) as its link with the rest of the world.

> By far the best British fingerspelling site I've seen is at:
>
> http://www.jimcromwell.mcmail.com/BSL/spell.htm
>
> Click on "Expressive Fingerspelling" or "Receptive Fingerspelling" to see
> two viewpoints.

Granted: the two viewpoints are nice.  But isn't the somewhat gothic-looking
design another reason why you particularly like this site?  ;-)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================