LL-L "Orthography" 2004.11.12 (06) [E/LS/Danish]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 12.NOV.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: Orthography

Ron, Kenneth,

Ingmar's objections remind me. I think it'd be very wise if it were made
damn clear on your ANS site that it's intention is to have everybody
spell phonemes/sounds the same, instead of the whole language. I know
you do explain that, but not clear enough and not in the first part of
the page that's visible in my browser. For the gnats, it should be close
to the top. In short: tell in only few sentences what it is, and what it
isn't, and make that as clear as possible. Only then people will look
further.

Perhaps it's also a good idea to create pages that show how to apply ANS
to various dialects, for example Drents.

Henry

----------

From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.11.12 (05) [E/LS]

Ingmar schreev:
>
> But I think the subject was orginally about the absence of Low Saxon at
> TravLang, and I still think for such purposes
> only one variety can be used, and the North Niedersachsen
(Hamburg/Bremen?)
> ones would be most acceptable for that.
>
I think it were better if people from North-, West-, and East-Saxon
stuck their heads together, decided which words are common to all or
most variants, and then wrote those down in something like ANS. That
should be acceptable to most people.

Ron schreev:
 >
>>>No, be my guest!  As long as you don't opt for _ßupen_ ... :-)
>>
>>Why not? I like it that way. *ducks* ;)
>
> OK, be my guest again, and let me know what reaction you get in Twente!
>
Just kidding Ron. They'd probably hit me over the head and deport me to
Bavaria or something...

Henry

----------

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.11.12 (05) [E/LS]

>>>>> Yeah Ron, I just don't like to be called a silly goose in public, or
be accused of feeling
'different', in other words 'better' than the rest. Maybe it was meant as a
joke, but in this case the
prejudice that Germans don't have any sense of humor can be expanded to
Dutch Low Saxons too...
Sorry 'bout that, it's just a joke ;-} Funny, isn't it?

And I'm still not getting it, that is true. You didn't want to go into my
examples, but I'd still like to know
how ANS would spell for my dialect:  _iene_ ["i:n@] = one, _blieven_
["bli:bm] = to stay,
_gleuven_ [Xl2:bm] = to believe, _bloed_ [blu:t] = blood, _brood_ [bro:t] =
bread, _duzend_ [dy:znt]
= thousand, _moezen_ [mu:zn] = mice, _zuken_ [zy:kN] = to search, _vergèten_
[V@"GE:tn] = to forget,
geven [Xe:bm] = to give etc.

'n snaternde ente  (Ingmar)

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Henry:

> Ingmar's objections remind me. I think it'd be very wise if it were made
> damn clear on your ANS site that it's intention is to have everybody
> spell phonemes/sounds the same, instead of the whole language. I know
> you do explain that, but not clear enough and not in the first part of
> the page that's visible in my browser. For the gnats, it should be close
> to the top. In short: tell in only few sentences what it is, and what it
> isn't, and make that as clear as possible. Only then people will look
> further.

Hører Du det, Kenneth?  8-)

> > OK, be my guest again, and let me know what reaction you get in Twente!
> >
> Just kidding Ron. They'd probably hit me over the head and deport me to
> Bavaria or something...

And well they should.  ;-)

Ingmar:

> Sorry 'bout that, it's just a joke ;-} Funny, isn't it?

Sure, Ingmar, whatever you say.

> And I'm still not getting it, that is true. You didn't want to go into my
> examples, but I'd still like to know
> how ANS would spell for my dialect:  _iene_ ["i:n@] = one, _blieven_
> ["bli:bm] = to stay,
> _gleuven_ [Xl2:bm] = to believe, _bloed_ [blu:t] = blood, _brood_ [bro:t]
=
> bread, _duzend_ [dy:znt]
> = thousand, _moezen_ [mu:zn] = mice, _zuken_ [zy:kN] = to search,
_vergèten_
> [V@"GE:tn] = to forget,
> geven [Xe:bm] = to give etc.

yne, blyven (~ blyben), glöven ~ (glöben), bluud, brood, düysend (~
duysend), musen, süyken (~ suyken), vergeten, geven (~ geben)

In my dialect(s):
eyn(e), blyven (~ blyben), glöyven ~ (glöyben), bloud, brood, dusend, musen,
söyken, vergeten, geven (~ geben)

[E.In(e)], [bli:vm] (~ [bli:bm]), [gl9.Ivm] (~ [gl9.Ibm]), [bloU:t],
[bro:t], [du:znt], [mu:zn], [z9.IkN], [f3`'ge:tn] (~ [f3`'gE:tn]), [ge:vm] ~
[gE:vm] (~ [ge:bm] ~ [gE:bm])

So there!

Your dialect seems to have high monophthongs where mine have rising
diphthongs:
[E.I] = [i:], [o.U] = [u:]

If this did not conflict, both types of dialects could use the same
spelling.  But your [i:] and [u:] coincide with "real" (;-) my) /ii/ and
/uu/ (as in _blyven_and _musen_), so you need to spell they your local way
(as above).

Again:
(You  |  Me)
yne  |  eyn(e)
blyven  |  blyven
bluud  |  bloud
musen  |  musen

Would we understand each other in writing?  You betcha!

> the
> prejudice that Germans don't have any sense of humor

Which applies especially to Gabriele and myself.  Right?

Kumpelmenten!
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Some impromptu avantgarde poetry for you:

   Na 't göys'-gesnater,
   Krayt dy keyn haan.
   Vlaytst dey aant vun 't water,*
   Schal sey 't verstaan.

 * based on the LS idiomatic expression _aanten vun d'n dyk vlayten_ ("to
whistle
   ducks from the pond") 'to waste one's time trying to do something
impossible',
   'to have a snowball's chance in hell'
:-}

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================